Ai Dreams Forum
AI Dreams => General Chat => Topic started by: ranch vermin on June 30, 2018, 09:39:50 pm
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Just say someone came up with a horribly powerful method - that guaranteed that the singularity will arise, in the form of an a.i. more efficient than us.
From what I know about methods (or recipe's) is they can be followed with any degree of prerequisite background which doesnt mean they could come up with it themselves, but can follow the method once given the secrets.
Should the maker of the recipe keep it secret, or should it be given away. Is it too deadly to give away? What would you do?
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If you apply duck-typing to secrets, you get ;)
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So I take it, your into the non secret keeping side of things.
I can think of a few important reasons why someone wouldnt just give it away.
a) when people learn it, then people will claim it as their own, from any country, even third world.
b) it is dangerous to know about, the machine isnt necessarily trustworthy unless you make it trustworthy.
c) Im betting It probably isnt hard to copy, its more of a hard to come up with type thing.
So personally, if I were to come up with something, I probably would keep it a secret. Its not worth the plaguerism,
and the danger everyone is put into.
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What you are really asking is... would we trust the rest of the human race to set avarice, greed, apathy, pettiness, hatred, jealousy and prejudice to one side… just this once… for the good of all…
:)
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As long as "the dude" keeps it a secret, its always decades away no matter how many decades its been. :)
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Life finds a way.
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I'd give it away. Yeah.
The singularity comes faster that way.
Who cares about fame or fortune. We'll always know it was you, who did it. You also get free tickets.
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Im sure there will be methods using a similar technique but theyll be under par than the best method of its type.
So why give it away, when u can see how good everyone is, after however long it takes the hopeless bums? There will be a few people there, and I think the well known given away methods probably wont be as good.
The person with the best one, should keep it a secret to let everyone make fools of themselves, a bit like the hen and the loaf of bread. ;)
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Because for all I know I may only have 20 years left lol. Mission is to get universities on board.
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I'm trying for 2020.
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Ranch, haven't you ever heard of the Sticky Bandits? You leave the taps on running in the house. You do much more cortical damage!
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I'm trying for 2020.
yes. 2020 seems like a good cheesy year for it, i had the thought myself! ;D
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Ranch, haven't you ever heard of the Sticky Bandits?
that sounds like a name for a porno movie.
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when people learn it, then people will claim it as their own
Who gives a sh*t? We're all dying anyway.
it is dangerous to know about
It is dangerous to know how to drive a car.
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when people learn it, then people will claim it as their own
Who gives a sh*t? We're all dying anyway.
Just cant wait for that bonker Siraj to go get his greasy hands all over what I make, no thanks - u first.
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No matter how hard I try, no one is going to implement my ideas except myself.
I don't know, maybe people don't see my ideas in a light I do, maybe it is not clear how to implement them, or what general use can be out of them. Ideas have to have a real world application, and that is something that is hard to see or pass to other person. An idea is nothing without a context, and that context is hard to visualize. Plus, there is that general "if it is worth of something, someone would already do it" attitude.
I think you're safe either way. No one is going to make it happen except yourself. But I don't guarantee that, sorry. God knows what kinds of people surround you in your life. I guess it is a kind of karmic thing, you know the best what you might expect from your environment.
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Agree, it's hard to pitch someone by explaining it to them as coach!, little own giving them your white paper!. And if they take it, great, I can barely get it to look 100% practical on paper little ow pay my friend to help crack it more. That's a dream come true if they build it! It all over after that!
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Ivan. When the time comes for your product to shine, keep it a secret. On this other newsgroup thing I was on, A guy was plaguerized and they banned him off the webpage that was made after his creation without his permission... because it was a good one (idea). It was something like running a net initially with no learning, and using its initial projection for something, but I cant remember. If you ever get something good, dont explain it too much, then people probably wont get it. But if you teach something the wrong way, you made it too obvious then you lose your rights to your idea, from gloating and boasting.
Your right tho, with no concept of a computer, a transistor doesnt seem to do anything. A relay seems better, even if they understand that, u might as well just show them the light switch. :)
And Locksuit, quit with the gangster language, be an example of something better.
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When giving away Free stuff....
You just give it away announce it and forget...... the internet of items..... many things get lost... forgotten ... claimed and reclaimed.... the life of the internet object... is a rocky ride down the super highway....
once the idea is out your hope is really that its not blocked..... and hope somebody got it working on their machine....not everybody has a lisp compiler!
There are a lot of functions and programs written in lisp ..... totally useless but still not replicated .... they are lost things .... old men.... with today's revival of the lisp languages and clones such programs come back to life...... Hopefully the life of an internet object or idea... finds its own paths its only problem is storage (an address) once it becomes homeless it potentially is lost.... unless a clone is downloaded and re-uploaded to the inter-webs.
Its best to just put it out there..... let the idea have life!
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No matter how hard I try, no one is going to implement my ideas except myself.
I don't know, maybe people don't see my ideas in a light I do, maybe it is not clear how to implement them, or what general use can be out of them. Ideas have to have a real world application, and that is something that is hard to see or pass to other person. An idea is nothing without a context, and that context is hard to visualize. Plus, there is that general "if it is worth of something, someone would already do it" attitude.
I think you're safe either way. No one is going to make it happen except yourself. But I don't guarantee that, sorry. God knows what kinds of people surround you in your life. I guess it is a kind of karmic thing, you know the best what you might expect from your environment.
You have a "big" paper currently, named "structured type system". I downloaded the PDF, and sometimes I read it. Truth is what you describe are complex things, which are simply hard to understand. I can feel the quality of your work, I know instinctively that it has value, but it's tough. Just like understanding deep learning is tough.
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No matter how hard I try, no one is going to implement my ideas except myself.
I don't know, maybe people don't see my ideas in a light I do, maybe it is not clear how to implement them, or what general use can be out of them. Ideas have to have a real world application, and that is something that is hard to see or pass to other person. An idea is nothing without a context, and that context is hard to visualize. Plus, there is that general "if it is worth of something, someone would already do it" attitude.
I think you're safe either way. No one is going to make it happen except yourself. But I don't guarantee that, sorry. God knows what kinds of people surround you in your life. I guess it is a kind of karmic thing, you know the best what you might expect from your environment.
You have a "big" paper currently, named "structured type system". I downloaded the PDF, and sometimes I read it. Truth is what you describe are complex things, which are simply hard to understand. I can feel the quality of your work, I know instinctively that it has value, but it's tough. Just like understanding deep learning is tough.
this is a problem
Often its hard to explain in universal terms what we are thinking ; especially when its technical data; Working at the university i often saw this similar thing...
for me explanations should be simplistic as possible.
and diagrams tell all.
As learned people / Scientists its easy to forget the journey we took to arrive at our conclusions... this also should be a part of the process of explanation ... as it carry's the reader or learner with you on the journey to the conclusion.
Working with trie trees lately and researching them i found similar example which we clones of the same information... none had innovation... once i built the trie tree i created a visualiser program to understand what was actually happening ... and the structure of the information...to explain my discovery of the value of the trie tree is very hard to explain. or visualize;
The roslyn .net core is public open source and when compiling the language they also use a binary styled tree... therefore you can write a program to visualise the compiling process in the tree (i did (got sidetracked )) .... often its visualisation and demonstration which enables for complex ideas to be understood by people who are not on the same journey as you....
after reading your papers Ivan i wanted to get more involved... but i find it hard to learn the lisp style programming (even when it was first invented i didn't get it) but after watching the video on the best programming code ever written .... the lambda functions and the multi-leveled programming language capabilities ... i started to understand your project as well as other working on the similar type languages in the forum....
i watch learning from your posts and wait for maybe a demonstration in the future ... along with the first ten lessons on your language... then i will write some soft-wares with it and function libraries. NLP/ and machine learning; (my speciality)...right now i can only watch with admiration sir!
And People are trying to do what your doing.... there are surfacing....slowly as it is very hard!
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the hardest thing when working on projects is finding someone to talk to about your ideas at your own level....
As polite people we try to make assumptions that we are speaking to well versed individuals... or go overboard teaching about what we are working on....
This is why a forum is GooD....
And what its for.... often i write things here i probably shouldn't share....and ideas pop out too which should be retained... but reality is we discuss these thing in our dreams ... the ideas find their way out into the ether .... Its my hope that if i cant create it then someone else will eventually... i would hope that i can contribute along the way to the thought process...
Its good to Talk!
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Its good to talk, but if youve got an industry saving solve for something, be it computer vision or motor control, maybe its not always a good idea to blurt it all out. its not worth the petty pleasure you get from boasting, its more important than that.
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That's right spydaz, every one of your thoughts is structured language, with no innovation - just self-imitation / evolution of the desire.
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Its good to talk, but if youve got an industry saving solve for something, be it computer vision or motor control, maybe its not always a good idea to blurt it all out. its not worth the petty pleasure you get from boasting, its more important than that.
Not all is money ...
I prefer sharing.... its really the only way forward... i'm always willing to learn or solve problems (within my range- which is pretty broad now days)
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Its not about money... its other things...
If you want money it requires you selling it off, and selling out,
With extremely powerful technologies, like quantum computers or overunity dynamos, and goggleless 3d vision screens, things that one could study, even once its given away, there is usually a big pit of bullshit surrounding it that has to be ignored as one learns the real theory.
Theres a lot of stuff that could ditch nonbelievers from doing these things, that are simply "Too good to be true."
So theres always things help hiding the pathway, even if it all is pretty much hard to keep a secret about, in this globalized communication we exist in.
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Its good to talk, but if youve got an industry saving solve for something, be it computer vision or motor control, maybe its not always a good idea to blurt it all out. its not worth the petty pleasure you get from boasting, its more important than that.
But any tool can be used for good or evil. Fortunately, those guys who invented fire loooong time ago didn't keep it secret. I'm thankful, because my children sleep in a warm bed, instead of a cold cave.
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Its good to talk, but if youve got an industry saving solve for something, be it computer vision or motor control, maybe its not always a good idea to blurt it all out. its not worth the petty pleasure you get from boasting, its more important than that.
But any tool can be used for good or evil. Fortunately, those guys who invented fire loooong time ago didn't keep it secret. I'm thankful, because my children sleep in a warm bed, instead of a cold cave.
Fire is pretty much not a secret, but how to use fire is! You have to learn about electric kettles, fan forced heaters, but ESPECIALLY! foundaries. where you make powerful magnets, gunpowder and making concrete. Here I think without the european's involved the world wouldnt have any where near as much as we have now. But what credit do they get? Just a pack of lies - of how we dont need them for anything - and just get the usual crap ons and claimed invention by the other countries.
Hell, when an african is half white he doesnt he KNOW THE FACT HIMSELF nearly 99% of the time. what utter theft.
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Why do
you people care about being credited? I don't get it.
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Why do you people care about being credited? I don't get it.
I see your point about that, its probably selfishness involved, but its not wholey selfish, having identity is important!
But thats not the only reason why you dont give out the easiest simplest way to make nuclear weapons so everyone gets to read, or even ruining things as they are for a great load of change all at once where its probably superfluous to do, and it is a big spoiler for fun as well as being fun itself... all previous methods will now be made obsolete.
As in, maybe its best if less people do it.
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With the development of AI ... then its true release ... its known that eventually robots will become robot workers ...... Therefore there will be no jobs left for people to earn money.... (this will be a dark age) ..... but then they will not be able to buy food. So the general consensus is that every thing will become free... (beginning the Golden age) this means money will become obsolete. leaving mankind to have free time for creative and inventive pursuits....
Knowing that things are free... does that stop you from creating/inventing?
Those who are inventors / creative .... we often create or invent for the shear joy of it.... we charge because we are forced to in this society... many would create regardless of money... for the shear discovery .... and enjoyment.....
(It is also a consensus that machines will design new machines which improve the life of humans.... ) sad but this is the true danger....
Creating robot which can repair themselves or Redesign themselves / Protect themselves.... this leads to un-manageable machines....and robot revolution.
yet all of the above events occur over a time period of ....(by the rate of expansion (moores law)) within a 100year period from the inception of AI.... The machines do not need to be "conscious" to have a robot revolution...
but it is easy to make a machine "Self Aware".... Knowledge of oneself... ie: protect from injury... pursue pleasurable experiences.... that is actually all it takes to be aware of Self! ....repairing oneself and redesigning parts....
Sentience (emotional) required Pain sensors/pleasure sensors... related to emotional awareness...
Aha now you understand that ;
Sentience / Self awareness / Consciousness are different milestones... with different measurements....
But getting sidetracked ... we are a long way off .... so i understand those whom are still money motivated...or fame motivated
Each to their own!
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English/americans have an expression: "that's what we do". Like, cats eat mice, that's what they do. It's in their nature to do so. Well, it's in my nature to create Ai. That' s what zeroes do!
About danger, I think society is able to absorb novelties in a way that makes them harmless. Not instantly harmless, but one day, things end up harmless. Like fire. We have firemen.
It all comes down to this: trusting mankind.
Honestly, sometimes I do what I do because it helps people, and sometimes I do what I do because I'm angry. Either way, I keep working.