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AI Dreams => General Chat => Topic started by: LOCKSUIT on September 13, 2018, 09:49:35 pm

Title: ANSI charactors
Post by: LOCKSUIT on September 13, 2018, 09:49:35 pm
if i want to save on memory space and not save IDs, can i save IDs like this when I save info linked to them?

info
info
info
info

instead of

1 info
2 info
3 info
4 info

If you do binary search, you can still know the ID # of em all, right???
For example, if you go 3 DOWN, then this line of whatever is ID 3, your at THREE
Is this possible in python?



Another question: Can I atain 65,025 unique IDs using just 2 charactors in ANSI? 255x255=65025! For example E3, Pv, 7^, @#

Is this the best method? -> say #$ = 55 and 466, well, we can go up incremental like this 0 0, 0 1....55 55, 55 56...here, the 2 ANSI charactors are numbers in 0-255 and i essentially form a number from 0 to hopefully 65025 by putting them next to each other as shown.
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: LOCKSUIT on September 13, 2018, 10:02:44 pm
---now wait, 255255....yet there is only 65,025 combos..........ok, 255 doesn't go up to 999, that's why. but we can go up to like this 255 99
---ah, we can skip IDs above 255 and go up higher to ex. 0255 and 1255 and 2255 up to 255255, which should be 65,025 combos!

? feedback? will both of the things I asked work?
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: ivan.moony on September 13, 2018, 10:10:49 pm
Those are programming questions.

We can store an "array" of items, one after another without key ID. Later, when we need, say third item, we initialize a counter that goes 1, 2, and it stops at 3, returning the address of  the array item to process it as we want. These counters are implemented through something called "loops" in imperative, or "recursions" in functional languages.

For the second question you messed up the numbers. Considering 1 ANSI character occupies exactly one byte (28 = 256 possible different bit combinations), two bytes are capable of storing 216 = 65536 possible different bit combinations. How you represent each combination, being two characters, one two-byte integer, or a bit-combination mapped to anything you want, including hexadecimal representation, is completely up to you.

Hexadecimal representations are useful when a user (programmer) is reading on screen raw 8-bit byte information because each byte can be represented by two digits hexadecimal value, 00 being 0, and FF being 255. In your case, it would be more convenient if we represent two-byte information as 4 digits hexadecimal. With hex numbers, each digit represents exactly 4 bits ( 24 = 16 combinations), where 16 bits is leaving us with 16 / 4 = 4 hexadecimal digits. You can say that the stars aligned each hex digit with 4 bits of information.
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: LOCKSUIT on September 13, 2018, 10:21:54 pm
Cool.

Not sure what to do with the 2nd question though.... ;

>I want to stick to ANSI right? Each character I store in ANSI takes 1 byte - 8 bits, (unless you know how I can get that lower).
>ANSI gives me 65536 unique IDs using just 2 characters. After I top out, I will then use 3 characters.
>I'm not sure what you mean by 4 digits, hex, or decimal. All I know is that using 1 characters gives me 255 unique IDs, then using 2 characters I get 65536 more unique IDs, for example 255255 is the 65536th unique ID make up, because it skips some like 77777 since 255 can't go higher. I know you can do stuff with them, like times/add etc, but I don't see a reason that adds more unique IDs to the punch.
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: LOCKSUIT on September 13, 2018, 10:25:54 pm
my code could look like this:

%6 &G Yt
43 Rn J#
"4 H! tT
Op YT ^%
...

here I don't even have to add the Ids of the lines of info, and as for what they link to, each link, well, most, just use 2 charactors (16 bits) to store a link to some ID. For example Op there above may say to go to ID 2
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: ivan.moony on September 13, 2018, 10:34:10 pm
When you store raw data, often you know how long each data item is. If the length of each item is, say 5 bytes, and you need an address of the third item, you calculate <address of the first item> + 5 * 3. But if each item has its own size, you got yourself a bit of trouble if you want to get some middle item. In those cases, it is useful to have another table called index. Index is composed of addresses of items from the first table, and if each address takes 4 bytes, it is easy to extract an address of each item by previous math.
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: LOCKSUIT on September 13, 2018, 10:38:44 pm
I can just do binary search over all stored IDs no? And skip the index that wastes more memory?
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: ivan.moony on September 13, 2018, 10:41:19 pm
Yes, but each item then have to have a fixed known length. And then, knowing the length,  you don't have to have an ID.
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: LOCKSUIT on September 13, 2018, 10:47:20 pm
That no make sense lol...

Is it better for binary search to just say ok I must find ID 27345 and then see that it is 5 digits long and go to the thousands sector place "door" and then go into the hundred sector and then brute force the 99/999 stored there?

Ex. to find 27345 it goes
door 20000
then door 7000
then it looks through brute force all IDs from 7000-7999!

you can imagine it looking like this:


30,000





   7,000

20,000



















1



that'd only require a few um ahem doors, a few bytes to store
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: Freddy on September 13, 2018, 11:03:57 pm
From a programming perspective you have to decide if the processing time of a sequential search is going to be more efficient than an indexed one. And you have to weigh that against gains or losses in memory usage.

What is the defining factor here ? Is it time or memory ?
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: LOCKSUIT on September 13, 2018, 11:35:19 pm
Time is important, and so is memory though. Using 2 characters to achieve a link from 1 node to another node is good atm. 1 character would be too good to be true. And you can't go lower than that even if.

But we are talking about binary search, indexing, brute force now, so back to the discussion:

is binary search the same as indexing or even use indexing?.....is one one faster but more memory wasting for long term? Oh and a 3rd one to the mix, what about my "doors" solution? Or is my solution actually binary search or indexing?
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: LOCKSUIT on September 13, 2018, 11:55:57 pm
****************
****************
****************
errr.....this no make sense.....

If all I have is millions of IDs not even written and only implied, and each has info, then what is there to index? And why can't binary search just do its job without first indexing? See below, we already have 10 IDs....what more could you "index".....just start choping them in half using binary search.....unless it has to create a binary search tree to index the IDs implied.

%6 &G Yt
43 Rn J#
"4 H! tT
Op YT ^%
...

.......if binary search is that tree i see on wiki, where it cuts half of the IDs in half each node it looks to, then, that is the same as my "door idea" where it eliminates options LOL. Isn't it? Isn't it??
****************
****************
****************
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: ivan.moony on September 14, 2018, 12:14:18 am
Binary search and indexing are advanced lessons. Perhaps you should start with basic programming. Then move onto memory management and pointers. Then binary search and indexes would make more sense.

Binary search works only on sorted data. And data could be sorted many ways, by this or that criteria, by this or that column, even on multiple columns at the same time. Specific sorting is stored into different indexes, handling the same data table. These things seem natural when you pass through basic and more advanced lessons of programming.

Of course, if you deal only with a single column, it could be sorted in place, without an index. But then there is a performance issue: is it faster to insert an item into a middle of list, or it is faster just to append the list, and insert a pointer into index of list.

The subject is very complicated, we are talking about memory management, people are writing thick books about that, and you can understand them only if you learn programming concepts with pointers, which could be understood only if you learn basic programming.

The question is: do you want to learn programming? If you do, there is a moderately long way to understand indexes which begins with basic stuff like program input, output, variable assignment, optional code branching, loops...
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: LOCKSUIT on September 14, 2018, 12:14:33 am
wait...if we don't wanna look through each sequentially, and just cut the IDs in half using binary search, why can mr. mighty binary searchy just look at thee midpoint element ex. 5573!? It'd have to look through thousands just to find that ID....if it can find that in 1 hit, then it don't need to do my job, i can just look for the ID..right?
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: LOCKSUIT on September 14, 2018, 12:25:56 am
To rephrase that: If we have IDs 0 to 1 million, and binary search can find ID 500,000 in ONE HIT, then that's all I want lol....I don't need binary search then....this don't make sense though I know it doesn't make sense...

Binary Search is supposed to find the ID I'm looking for. I read online that it first finds the midpoint of all elements. THAT defies the whole logic/point of the problem, it can't find that in 1 hit.

Worse case, it'd have to read through half of the elements.
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: Korrelan on September 14, 2018, 12:48:22 am
Are you getting binary sort and binary search mixed up?

 :)
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: LOCKSUIT on September 14, 2018, 12:55:21 am
so if my IDs are sorted like this 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15...
and not like 4 1 7 2 9 3....
then I can just find "3736" in 1 hit?...

I just want to find "47487" in millions of Ids in a fast amount of time man...

And I don't understand how Binary Search can find the middle ID to start cutting it down by half when it can't just "find" a ID like that so fast. BS can't just "find" the middle element. If it can find that, then it can just find ID "474577" in a sorted array.
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: LOCKSUIT on September 14, 2018, 05:53:30 am
Can anyone explain how Binary Search finds the middle element in 1 read?

Say you have IDs:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

Does BS look at half of them just to find it, or only 1 read? If 1 read, how!?
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: LOCKSUIT on September 14, 2018, 06:02:16 am
Oh sorry, I mean, when BS begins, and wants to compute the middle element just simply so it can start cutting in half the possible IDs, how does it find the middle element in 1 read!?
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: LOCKSUIT on September 14, 2018, 07:02:43 am
good thing mine will be sorted

see middle area of this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQhciTuD3E8

those 40 or so blocks contains numbers that don't increment by 1 like 1 2 3 4 5 6.....but rather 3 6 13 19 26...

If my IDs are like 1 2 3 4 5 6....i.e. sorted+incremental by 1, then does that mean I can just take 1 read and find ID 464846 instantly and don't need binary search?
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: Korrelan on September 14, 2018, 09:11:40 am
If you have an array were each element contains a consecutive number with no gaps then you will not need a binary search... But what's the  point? If you already have the index/ address of the required array element and the element just contains the same number, just use the index.

 :)
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: ranch vermin on September 14, 2018, 11:18:00 am
haha sounds like Locksuit is coming up with his own content addressable memory!

Keep going Locky!   ill give you a merit badge at the finish line.  O0
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: 8pla.net on September 15, 2018, 03:42:41 am
Quote from: LOCKSUIT on September 14, 2018, 05:53:30 am
Can anyone explain how Binary Search finds the middle element in 1 read?

Say you have IDs:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7


Yes.  Let's look at some simple PHP...

Code
<?php

$numbers=array(1,2,3,4,5,6,7);

echo var_export($numbers, TRUE);

echo "\n\n";

echo "Middle element:".floor(sizeof($numbers)/2);

echo "\n\n";

?>

array (
  0 => 1,
  1 => 2,
  2 => 3,
  3 => 4,
  4 => 5,
  5 => 6,
  6 => 7,
)

Middle element:3

See? The keys 0 through 6 are automatic.  So, just divide the count by two.
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: Ultron on September 15, 2018, 01:36:41 pm
I suggest you use a real database engine such as MySQL (or depending on your project you may also use a NoSQL horizontally scalable DB). In the table you would have an ID column with an 'auto-increment' setting and omitting this column will not improve performance.

If you really must use arrays and this is only for temporary memory then I suggest using a simple array ( [item item item item] ) and retrieve each element by referencing it's index and this will only work if you need to find "the element at position x", but if you need to find the "position x of element y" than this will be a bad solution (resort to SQL DB).
As a general guideline, referencing an array element by index is faster than retrieving elements by key-value pairs (although this may not be true for all programming languages).
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: 8pla.net on September 16, 2018, 02:11:42 am
Here are two ways to do a binary search:

https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/binary-search-php

The way that uses recursion is interesting.
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: LOCKSUIT on September 16, 2018, 07:20:45 am
If i want to store in my python script a whole lot a crazy characters lik ! , ' " : [ { + =......won't python think I am talking python?

Like look dude...:

array = 3, 4, 2, 5, 7, %, ',

Also another request, I want that array to look like this because it saves on space: 3,4,2,5,7,%,', else memory WILL grow.

How how how!!?? Do I use a string to do binary search in (or just search as korr agreed if it is sorted and ID incremental ex. 1 2 3)?

I will basically have jumble like this with spaces or commas as the definer of the start of a new ID or "node" if you will:
array/string = H,J.k&,%5,"D L,P H,#$ k.^# ...........<- *notice the spaces* (can be commas)
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: 8pla.net on September 16, 2018, 12:11:00 pm
"won't python think I am talking python?", Lock Suit asked.  In friendly response (not sarcastically)... "So what if it does?" 
Basically suggesting a short Python script be written and executed to test and see what happens.

Python console:

>>> [Locksuit for Locksuit in "HJk&%5DLP#$k.^#"]

['H', 'J', 'k', '&', '%', '5', 'D', 'L', 'P', '#', '$', 'k', '.', '^', '#']
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: Korrelan on September 16, 2018, 12:21:09 pm
https://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/NonProgrammers

Make the time and effort to learn programming lock, you will really enjoy it.

 :)
Title: Re: ANSI charactors
Post by: Ultron on September 16, 2018, 03:51:57 pm
I very much agree with Korrelan. In fact, I don't see a way how anyone would design artificial intelligence if one does not understand the basic principles of programming - unless this person believes a completely new computing model should be designed with completely new programming techniques (which I would agree with) but then one would have to be an adept mathematician, at which point becoming a programmer would represent only a formality.