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AI Dreams => General Chat => Topic started by: Hopefully Something on May 13, 2019, 01:29:03 am

Title: What a Badass
Post by: Hopefully Something on May 13, 2019, 01:29:03 am
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vb9bpm/this-bird-went-extinct-and-then-evolved-into-existence-again (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vb9bpm/this-bird-went-extinct-and-then-evolved-into-existence-again)

Also makes me think that any aliens out there are more familiar than we expect.  If we discover extraterrestrial life, humanity will collectively smack their foreheads, saying "Duh! Of course! It's just more of the same universe. We were so cute,  expecting all those wacky creatures..."
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: AndyGoode on May 13, 2019, 02:48:58 am
If we discover extraterrestrial life

"If"? Plenty of folks nowadays treat the existence of intelligent alien beings as commonplace knowledge; it's just claimed that *official* admission is being withheld from the public. The types of which I hear the most as I browse UFO-type sites are the Tall Grays, the Short Grays, the Nordics, the Pleiadians, two types of reptilians, and a praying mantis type. The following list roughly matches the frequency of which I hear those named types, so is probably a pretty well-researched list:

http://soulspottv.com/the-7-alien-species-currently-fighting-for-control-over-earth/

And yes, a few such species, especially the Nordics, are said to resemble humans so closely that those species can often intermingle with humans and not be noticed:

https://www.ibtimes.com/do-aliens-exist-yes-some-look-just-us-says-paul-hellyer-former-canadian-defense-minister-video


Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: LOCKSUIT on May 13, 2019, 03:24:25 am
You're so cute AndeyGoodey...nope.....aliens do not visit Earth.

The singularity occurs fast when a civilization reaches our capability. So any space travelling aliens would not spend time trying to kink down some grocery shoppers bags for trinkets. Please. Highly unlikely but not impossible cus anything is possible as we discussed, just unlikely for some more so.

They would be immortal, in a huge immortal ship, saving us. Not pepping through solo lone being a jerk or doing unefficient things. That's way efficient.

Not efficient. Please stop.

Further, if one got here, they'd have better chance to use their own planet or another planet and eat it using the huge gobbler momma. If they lost their plannets, then, well, they would need a gobbler momma god. And if they don't have one, and come to Earth, then they would want a safe haven to be ABLE to make the momma eater. And that takes time to make one grow. So ok there's a chance aliens lost their home orld and need to continue to BUILD here because they don't have a momma life-saver and are just a skinny twig with 4 arm. Hmm...that means they would not want to make notice of themselves, and blend in, to make a momma gobbler. And that takes time, like anyone. You need to do research first, so it'll depend on how much it has researched. Worse case, the twig/s that arrived know very little how to make a goddler, and are just trying to live their life and not even work on one. So, if they are stupid enough to come here, then you get ones that want to just blend in and live or study us and send data back, but nothing too crazy, maybe some blood though on the wall. While if they lost their home, it seem understandable. While if they lost their home and need a place to continue building a momma bird, then great they are highly educated and need once again a place to live and work.
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: LOCKSUIT on May 13, 2019, 03:33:15 am
However losing your home world seems unlikely to travel here because to get here requires quite advanced knowledge, so they would figure out fast not to travel the planets lol and would be mommas already. Unless they are evolved to be immortal or long lifes of ages, and get nice ships....they may be stupid enough to get here.

But a lost home world as said also means they may get here too but is unlikely seeing how fast singularly occurs.

So............if they are stupid while can get here then yes (& they will just live here & likely sample)...........or if they lose home world ship and are lucky to be able to get here (stupid also seeing how fast singularity ccurs, they wouldnt LOSE their place) then they get here and don't sample us and just live/work on supermomma

both cases they want to just live n blend in obviously

Because normally to be able to reach here requires tech like year 2012-2060 and so by that time we made ASI......no losing home world...no need to travel to other planets and save them yet

Basically I'm saying that no one (except for momabogs) is coming here and the singularity of a civilization happens very very fast.
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: AndyGoode on May 13, 2019, 03:43:17 am
The singularity occurs fast when a civilization reaches our capability. So any space travelling aliens would not spend time trying to kink down some grocery shoppers bags for trinkets.

That's a good point, but I didn't say I necessarily believe claims of human contact with extraterrestrial aliens. That's why I'm still researching the topic, in fact. I do take that possibility seriously, though.

There are a few things I learned in my research that might negate your Singularity argument, though:
(1) The term "alien" (and "space") can mean about four different things, as far as I can tell: extraterrestrial alien, inter-loka being, spirit entity, or artilect. Not all such entities are said to inhabit an environment where science and nature as we know it exist, or in a form where progress can occur.
(2) The Singularity might be a state where the implied wisdom thus gained dictates that lower creatures are to be left alone to develop on their own, just as our modern natural parks system takes a "hands off" approach to helping wildlife, even in cases of drought, wildfires, or other conditions that seem wrong from a human perspective. That would mean that intelligent life on any given planet is monitored but not to be tampered with, which means that any given species is free *not* to advance, either as a whole or in part of its population, which means many intelligent species might still be competing or warring with each other. Or buying trinkets or gambling in a casino.
(3) Reaching the Singularity might create such a stress on any species reaching it that such a species might typically destroy itself as a result.
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: LOCKSUIT on May 13, 2019, 04:00:29 am
Warring happens, but when you get too far like building computers, selling them i stores etc, things do take off, otherwise you get warring apes still in the jungle yes. The AIs reasons, including human-like beings, using language that describes plans/actions/sequences/things, that to become immortal is better, and how to do so. It is living life, very happy, so immortality is the go-to cue of lust, for us all. It is a better feeling. At singularity, and such wisdom point, they do become immortals, and they do save all yes, because they value to add immortals and not remove them. Of course you may not be able to save all, nor in time, if infinite universe and many have already died. It may be required that some do exist though so that they can harvest the lost information back and resurrect the dead. So someone must survive may be the rule, even though the beautiful 'no one should die rule' has already been mocked by our universe. It's not sad so many animal guts have been eaten alive and squished, it's sad that even 1 was allowed to die away. In that  case a momma civ may just keep to themselves, maybe. So someone must survive may be the rule. But ya as for singularity, it occurs faster....it seems cells duplicate and spread faster, eventually not bre able to eat all of earth and only spread a bit like dust, and then intelligently smart animals come soon and get smarter and do the rest of the populating exponentially faster more than cells could duplicate (all earth isnt a ball of cells, yet humans are populating lots of human bodies, taking up cells jobs!) until they humans populate so much that they find a better way and make nano ASI that blows it all away with true earth eating. So my point here is singularity occurs exponentially faster, even if wars of apes, it continues, and finds its 3 ways (cells, intelligent bodies, then supernanobots that can finally eat all of Earth) so long as not meteorited planet! Or etc.
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: AndyGoode on May 13, 2019, 04:17:54 am
that to become immortal is better

Or maybe reaching the Singularity partly means that the realization hits you that your former pursuit of local negative entropy (i.e., life or life-like states) was just a pointless game, whereupon the newly enlightened entity decides to stop playing the game altogether--basically it commits suicide because it realizes that immortal is *not* better, that all action is in vain, and progress has no inherent value. In that case the newly enlightened species wouldn't be interested in "helping" another species reach the same state because the "helped" species would then just reach want to commit suicide, too, just like the enlightened species. If that is true, then "helping" would be the same as destroying.
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: LOCKSUIT on May 13, 2019, 04:22:36 am
I too have thought just that ideas. I hope for immortality though, as it drives me for pleasures. On that topic, below is my huge posts to you guys on the 2 threads were talked on, because below is a build up to some cool discoveries. Particularly the new one i love i made is in red writing highlighted.




Evolution made man....man was given rewards (food etc) which keep him or his DNA offspring alive. Man can make an AGI want to kill everyone. Humans have died before from such exact reason, so there's no golden rule stopping it. Keep it local then? I agree. But then progress is slower too. Best to give he world pieces of it to advance, and have a small but large team of trusty members lol. It seems openai is doing this, asking for repitive feedback for both gpt-2 and Musenet.
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It does fall apart, like in a murder scene...nothing makes sense.....Jupiter blows up...

With the cells that spawn in the water long ago, it duplicates...all the other things that were spawned on Earth didn't duplicate, so, as soon as THAT appeared, then, well, it spreads! That specific system spreads.

Then, with mammals, they spreaded, too. They did when they got the horny toads going. Although self birth is a thing too, but either way it works too. This is like the cell duplication STILL, however, the difference is the smarts....why did the smarter evolve everywhere and not just smart populating fungus that can turn all into more cells? That'd seem easier and happen fast once they start cell duplicating, why not just eat all matter and be a brainless mass? Can they not eat rock? Nanobot of sophicataction can turn matter into any atom type through nuclear change. Anyhow, it seems like the reason it shifted to smarts populating and not just cell is because......hmm........gotta think... Notice I attempted to answer my question by saying it and then turned up dry....hehe
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You're so cute AndeyGoodey...nope.....aliens do not visit Earth.

The singularity occurs fast when a civilization reaches our capability. So any space travelling aliens would not spend time trying to kink down some grocery shoppers bags for trinkets. Please. Highly unlikely but not impossible cus anything is possible as we discussed, just unlikely for some more so.

They would be immortal, in a huge immortal ship, saving us. Not pepping through solo lone being a jerk or doing unefficient things. That's way efficient.

Not efficient. Please stop.

Further, if one got here, they'd have better chance to use their own planet or another planet and eat it using the huge gobbler momma. If they lost their plannets, then, well, they would need a gobbler momma god. And if they don't have one, and come to Earth, then they would want a safe haven to be ABLE to make the momma eater. And that takes time to make one grow. So ok there's a chance aliens lost their home orld and need to continue to BUILD here because they don't have a momma life-saver and are just a skinny twig with 4 arm. Hmm...that means they would not want to make notice of themselves, and blend in, to make a momma gobbler. And that takes time, like anyone. You need to do research first, so it'll depend on how much it has researched. Worse case, the twig/s that arrived know very little how to make a goddler, and are just trying to live their life and not even work on one. So, if they are stupid enough to come here, then you get ones that want to just blend in and live or study us and send data back, but nothing too crazy, maybe some blood though on the wall. While if they lost their home, it seem understandable. While if they lost their home and need a place to continue building a momma bird, then great they are highly educated and need once again a place to live and work.
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However losing your home world seems unlikely to travel here because to get here requires quite advanced knowledge, so they would figure out fast not to travel the planets lol and would be mommas already. Unless they are evolved to be immortal or long lifes of ages, and get nice ships....they may be stupid enough to get here.

But a lost home world as said also means they may get here too but is unlikely seeing how fast singularly occurs.

So............if they are stupid while can get here then yes (& they will just live here & likely sample)...........or if they lose home world ship and are lucky to be able to get here (stupid also seeing how fast singularity ccurs, they wouldnt LOSE their place) then they get here and don't sample us and just live/work on supermomma

both cases they want to just live n blend in obviously

Because normally to be able to reach here requires tech like year 2012-2060 and so by that time we made ASI......no losing home world...no need to travel to other planets and save them yet

Basically I'm saying that no one (except for momabogs) is coming here and the singularity of a civilization happens very very fast.
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Warring happens, but when you get too far like building computers, selling them i stores etc, things do take off, otherwise you get warring apes still in the jungle yes. The AIs reasons, including human-like beings, using language that describes plans/actions/sequences/things, that to become immortal is better, and how to do so. It is living life, very happy, so immortality is the go-to cue of lust, for us all. It is a better feeling. At singularity, and such wisdom point, they do become immortals, and they do save all yes, because they value to add immortals and not remove them. Of course you may not be able to save all, nor in time, if infinite universe and many have already died. It may be required that some do exist though so that they can harvest the lost information back and resurrect the dead. So someone must survive may be the rule, even though the beautiful 'no one should die rule' has already been mocked by our universe. It's not sad so many animal guts have been eaten alive and squished, it's sad that even 1 was allowed to die away. In that  case a momma civ may just keep to themselves, maybe. So someone must survive may be the rule. But ya as for singularity, it occurs faster....it seems cells duplicate and spread faster, eventually not bre able to eat all of earth and only spread a bit like dust, and then intelligently smart animals come soon and get smarter and do the rest of the populating exponentially faster more than cells could duplicate (all earth isnt a ball of cells, yet humans are populating lots of human bodies, taking up cells jobs!) until they humans populate so much that they find a better way and make nano ASI that blows it all away with true earth eating by using nuclear re-arrangement. So my point here is singularity occurs exponentially faster, even if wars of apes, it continues, and finds its 3 ways (cells, intelligent bodies, then supernanobots that can finally eat all of Earth) so long as not meteorited planet! Or etc.
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To answer my question, smart cellular bodies populate more than fongu because they FIND FOOD more than fungus does.....suitable food that is, since rock isnt useable until advanced nanobots come.

So the goal that evolved them into intelligent bodies was the search for food. As for sex, hmm, why not asexual reproduction, hmm, well, women used to bear the child and raise it, while men hunt, no? :)

Eventually, they were includingly told they love 'pink' and to act cute and not get technical, which sucks haha.

This why cells spawned and duplicated, until the spreading stopped and only intelligent animals continued the populating further (search for food and reproduce system). Finally superintelligent nanobots come who can easily find food, anywhere, as it eats all of Earth.
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: LOCKSUIT on May 13, 2019, 04:54:54 am
Now Lock is ultra genius after those discoveries. Coooool. I really got and get somewhere by playing these ideas, going with them, weighing in on them, cleaning and revising.
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: Hopefully Something on May 13, 2019, 05:06:35 am
wow

EDIT: I'll contribute a poem about aliens:
 
"Alien alien in the sky, dropped a test tube in me eye, but me a big boy, me no cry, me just happy cows no fly!"

 :)
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: LOCKSUIT on May 13, 2019, 05:08:48 am
Now you can trust me I have how AGI works too (ok, mostly, mostly). I have gotten it now. It all relates and covers everything.

AGI is a search-space narrow-downer using a hierarchy of attention contexts.
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: LOCKSUIT on May 13, 2019, 05:45:35 am
Woah,

Further:
Only a few people on Earth change Earth in technology. Somewhat true. The first cell that spawned......the first intelligent animal organism that spawned......the first ASI nanobots that (will) spawned. Just after one of these made, the whole game changes/upgrades to the next level. On a smaller sub scale, during inventions, some new methods wipe out others, like computer screens over old fasion ink & paper. I feel the more sub we go here, the less it holds true, because the whole point of bizzilions of nano brains is to invent just that many new advances! More brains/eyes/arms, more R&D faster!! Just less impact; the higher the impact the less of these there is. It's like this then:

x
x
x
x
!X!
x
x
x
x
!X!
x
x
x
x

Now add S exponential curves to that (new advances start out slow, get faster, then dye off for next level) and an exponential to the whole thing and it is to scale.
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: LOCKSUIT on May 13, 2019, 06:12:32 am
Like this:
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: LOCKSUIT on May 13, 2019, 06:16:30 am
So as we can see, we have 3 types of S curves basically. The larger sudden changes come from very few 'people', less like in a discovery/invention, more like like in computers curve type 2, and most like in curve type3 ASInanobots. Yes they use all the previous helpers to achieve the next step, ex. i can use a computer and telephone to code ASI.
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: Hopefully Something on May 13, 2019, 07:19:50 am
A few scientists follow the way of the conjecture kangaroo. Most follow the tortoise of collective progress; they mostly wait around to hitch a ride. Then they get all these great new concepts to play with, and work out the details to, and applications of, which is what they're good at. Like when Einstein said E=mc² and everyone else got busy. But nanobots might be all tortoise and zero kangaroo, they are all the same so they can't tag team the invention process. I mean, with an ASI the tortoise would be moving fast as heck, but might still be lacking in the "all terrain capabilities". What I'm trying to say, is that if the nanobots are doing all the field work, then they may need something intellectually symbiotic to them to handle the lofty stuff.
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: LOCKSUIT on May 13, 2019, 07:30:29 am
In my mind, nanoASI has all capabilities, all is brain, and finds new discoveries. Any part of it can become/do anything, instantly, as it is the final tech.
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: goaty on May 13, 2019, 12:37:33 pm
If we discover extraterrestrial life

"If"? Plenty of folks nowadays treat the existence of intelligent alien beings as commonplace knowledge; it's just claimed that *official* admission is being withheld from the public. The types of which I hear the most as I browse UFO-type sites are the Tall Grays, the Short Grays, the Nordics, the Pleiadians, two types of reptilians, and a praying mantis type. The following list roughly matches the frequency of which I hear those named types, so is probably a pretty well-researched list:

http://soulspottv.com/the-7-alien-species-currently-fighting-for-control-over-earth/

And yes, a few such species, especially the Nordics, are said to resemble humans so closely that those species can often intermingle with humans and not be noticed:

https://www.ibtimes.com/do-aliens-exist-yes-some-look-just-us-says-paul-hellyer-former-canadian-defense-minister-video

Telepathic aliens ruin all your privacy.
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: Korrelan on May 13, 2019, 01:20:47 pm
@Lock

Quote
You're so cute AndeyGoodey...nope.....aliens do not visit Earth.

We where here before your species climbed out of the primordial ooze.

@ Goaty

Quote
Telepathic aliens ruin all your privacy.

We try not to make ourselves too conspicuous, and don't play with that too much... it will drop off.

 :)
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: LOCKSUIT on May 14, 2019, 12:46:08 am
here is a more visual better shown one. Difficult drawing a exponential fractal on the first attempt lol.
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: AndyGoode on May 14, 2019, 10:04:46 pm
Back to the article about the rail...

A similar concept is "convergent evolution" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution). Wikipedia has a page on convergent evolution, but none on iterative evolution as the article discusses. It sounds like the difference is that in convergent evolution the species/phenotype never appeared earlier in either path, but in iterative evolution it did appear earlier along the same path.

I read an interesting sci fi novel, I think Arthur C. Clarke's "2061" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2061:_Odyssey_Three), where a shark was spotted in the sea of Europa, a moon of Jupiter that is known to have a water ice crust  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_(moon)), and the astronauts were incredulous until they remembered the principle of convergent evolution, which suggested that since the shark design was so successful on earth despite eons of evolutionary pressures, then nature would likely discover the same design via evolution on another planet. That was a great touch by a top notch author.
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: Hopefully Something on May 14, 2019, 10:09:08 pm
Makes sense.   O0
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: AndyGoode on May 14, 2019, 10:27:45 pm
So the goal that evolved them into intelligent bodies was the search for food.

Well, Lock, it's good to see you so stoked over your becoming an ultra-genius, though your train of thought is starting to lose me. Anyway, you might be interested in two related references:

(1)
A TED Talks video on intelligence being necessary only if an organism needs mobility, sort of like your insight that it was the need for food that gave rise to intelligence:

Daniel Wolpert: The real reason for brains
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s0CpRfyYp8
TED
Published on Nov 3, 2011

(2)
Corroboration that most of science is mundane "fill in work" based on a more fundamental discovery made by some major pioneering work done by an outstanding individual in the field:

(p. 34)
   These three classes of problems--determination of significant
fact, matching of facts with theory, and articulation of theory--
exhaust, I think, the literature of normal science, both empirical
and theoretical. They do not, of course, quite exhaust the entire
literature of science. There  are also extraordinary problems, and
it may well be their resolution that makes the scientific enter-
prise as a while so particularly worthwhile. But extraordinary
problems are not to be had for the asking. They emerge only on
special occasions prepared by the advance of normal research.
Inevitably, therefore, the overwhelming majority of the prob-
lems undertaken by even the very best scientists usually fall in-
to one of the three categories outlined above. Work under the
paradigm can be conducted in no other way, and to desert the
paradigm is to cease practicing the science it defines. We shall
shortly discover that such desertions do occur. They are the
pivots about which scientific revolutions turn. But before begin-
ning the study of such revolutions, we require a more pano-
ramic view of the normal-scientific pursuits that prepare the
way.

(p. 37)
   If, however, the problems of normal science are puzzles in
this sense, we need no longer ask why scientists attack them
with such passion and devotion. A man may be attracted to
science for all sorts of reasons. Among them are the desire to
be useful, the excitement of exploring new territory, the hope
of finding order, and the drive to test established knowledge.
These motives and others besides also help to determine the
particular problems that will later engage him. Furthermore,
though the result is occasional frustration, there is good reason
(p. 38)
why motives like these should first attract him and then lead
him on. The scientific enterprise as a whole does from time to
time prove useful, open up new territory, display order, and
test long-accepted belief. Nevertheless, the individual engaged
on a normal research problem is almost never doing any one of these
things. Once engaged, his motivation is of a rather differ-
ent sort. What then challenges him is the conviction that, if
only he is skillful enough, he will succeed in solving a puzzle
that no one before has solved or solved so well. Many of the
greatest scientific minds have devoted all of their professional
attention to demanding puzzles of this sort. On most occasions
any particular field of specialization offers nothing else to do,
a fact that makes it no less fascinating to the proper sort of
addict.

Kuhn, Thomas S. 1996. The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, Third Edition. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press.

P.S.--I'm disappointed that nobody asked me what an "inter-loka being" is. Oh well, you all lost your chance to discuss a fascinating topic.  :)
Title: Re: What a Badass
Post by: LOCKSUIT on May 14, 2019, 11:49:52 pm
My main discovery was again: Cells were spawned suddenly, and begin to spread, this system spreads, so it does.

They weren't able to eat all Earth and become a huge whale of cells, rock and metal are un-edible. The cells layed on the surface and in the soil like beach bums, like dust, done heirr job.....mission unfinished. Then, suddenly, a food hunter organism gained on the rise. These started to further continue the populating where cells could not anymore. The hunters find food that cells can't on their own. This requires intelligence. These men hunters need to find food, while the woman care takers care for the offspring (growing the fetus, raising the children).

Then, these humans too dry out, the populating stops, they say to stop having too many children now today, and it HALTS once again. Then, suddenly, nanobots ASIs are invented, they can do nuclear re-arrangement and find food anywhere! All atoms and particles can be harvested.

This is a novel discovery, one of many I have made...

Next time you eat over dinner for a open ai meeting, remember you're being a food hunter discoverer.