Ai Dreams Forum

Artificial Intelligence => General AI Discussion => Topic started by: Zero on July 04, 2019, 09:57:28 AM

Title: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: Zero on July 04, 2019, 09:57:28 AM
That one caught my eye:
Quote from: Wikipedia
While consciousness is being aware of one's environment and body and lifestyle, self-awareness is the recognition of that awareness.

That's a very exciting challenge. First, you have consciousness, with external consciousness (being aware of where I end and where my environment begins) and internal consciousness (being aware of what's happening inside of my mind). Then you have self-awareness: being aware that I'm aware of...

Algorithmically, it implies having internal sensors to feel what's happening inside the program (internal sensors send data to program input), including sensors to feel this internal sensor loop. Trying to figure out a minimal algorithm drives me mad.
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: LOCKSUIT on July 04, 2019, 12:04:32 PM
One model does it all....it just talks about being aware that it's aware...stores the speech, etc....There's no need to add anything else but a GPT2-like network.

"Navigating somewhere, knowing the details, and that you know the details."
...This can be summarized to one function again as said...GPT-2 can plan/think (hence act them), know the plans, and say it knows that.

Really, you have to ask yourself what purpose is saying you know you know? It is just a tuple, a fact, and nothing more...R&D is very important however, to learn to plan & create new inventions and information, then use those tools/info.
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: Zero on July 04, 2019, 01:25:40 PM
I don't believe in unicorns!
;)
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: AndyGoode on July 04, 2019, 04:36:49 PM
Caution: People really in the know in A.I. don't use the term "consciousness." It's basically a bad word in the field, used mainly by laymen, and nothing useful can come of discussing it. I recommend the more down-to-earth concept of "self-awareness" instead.

(p. 96)
   A large part of the problem with these scenarios is that there is no uni-
versal consensus as to the meaning of the word consciousness. Philosophers
and mathematicians have grappled with the word for centuries, and have
nothing to show for it.
Seventeenth-century thinker Gottfried Leibniz,
inventor of calculus, once wrote, "If you could blow the brain up to the size
of a mill and walk about inside, you would not find consciousness." Philos-
opher David Chalmers has even catalogued almost 20,000 papers written
on the subject, with no consensus whatsoever.
   Nowhere in science have so many devoted so much to create so little.
   Consciousness, unfortunately, is a buzzword that means different things
to different people. Sadly, there is no universally accepted definition of the
term.

Kaku, Michio. 2011. Physics of the Future: How Science Will Shape Human Destiny and Our Daily Lives By the Year 2100. New York: Doubleday.

(p. 57)
THE MYSTERY OF SELF-AWARENESS

If the space-time theory of consciousness is correct, then it also gives us a
rigorous definition of self-awareness. Instead of vague, circular references,
we should be able to give a definition that is testable and useful. We'll define
self-awareness as follows:


Self-awareness is creating a model of the world and simulating the
future in which you appear.

Kaku, Michio. 2014. The Future of the Mind: The Scientific Quest to Understand, Enhance, and Empower the Mind. New York: Doubleday.

Psychologists have developed many types of self-awareness, such as social self-awareness, but I believe the following article is particularly good. It discusses three types of self-awareness that can mostly be applied to A.I. in a technical way.

"Self-awareness in animals" (David DeGrazia)
https://philosophy.columbian.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs1676/f/image/degrazia_selfawarenessanimals.pdf

Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: Zero on July 04, 2019, 05:51:45 PM
Sorry I don't believe in "People really in the know" either ;D
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: WriterOfMinds on July 05, 2019, 04:59:40 AM
"Self-awareness" may have the advantage of being easy to define precisely, but I don't think Michio Kaku's definition of it adequately addresses reality.  It gives an incomplete account of human experience; it does not cover, or provide a means of testing for, what people are generally thinking of when they use the word "consciousness."  I can imagine an entity which is capable of simulating a future containing itself, while still having no first-person experience stream, i.e. still being a p-zombie.

The mere fact that a concept is so fundamental that it is difficult to describe in terms of other things, does not render that concept non-existent, meaningless, unimportant, or unworthy of discussion.  Furthermore, while the word "consciousness" is ambiguous in that it can refer to several different things, there are ways of clarifying. 

"Phenomenal consciousness" is the term I've seen used to refer to an organism's subjective experience of existence, or what it feels like to be in some state.  If you want to speak of being "conscious" of some piece of information in the sense of having it available for use in your high-level reasoning processes/being able to speak of it, you can use "access consciousness."  "Wakefulness" can substitute for "consciousness" when the intent is to distinguish being "conscious" from being asleep or "knocked out."

In any case, I'm an AI hobbyist and not beholden to anyone in either the academic or professional sphere, so I can use whatever words I want.
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: Hopefully Something on July 05, 2019, 05:06:48 AM
Yeah there are some distinctions to be made. For example when dreaming, i'd say that I am conscious but not self aware.

Quote
In any case, I'm an AI hobbyist and not beholden to anyone in either the academic or professional sphere, so I can use whatever words I want.

Academic fashion...   It'll  be numbers next. "We are aware of your important research... but we have called this board meeting to let you know that we feel the use of the Pi symbol has become somewhat passe... and as such require revisions before any more papers can be submitted."
 :idiot2:
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: LOCKSUIT on July 05, 2019, 05:50:06 AM
@Andey I agree.

"Self-awareness is creating a model of the world and simulating the future in which you appear."
Exactly, GPT-2.

"when dreaming, i'd say that I am conscious but not self aware."
When you dream, you trust crazy ideas with little reasoning. There's a lot of memories you don't think of, as if you are stupid-er. But that's the point of dreams, to be open-minded. So self-aware could be said to equate to 'using more facts and zooming in on them'. Something more logically useful, than puff.
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: LOCKSUIT on July 05, 2019, 11:14:50 AM
It's natural for humans to want or desire to think of themselves as not only something that should not be killed, but also to be self-aware and 'awake'. Because in theirs minds, being more than a machine is positive/magical/rare, and survival means they get rewards and future rewards. And being self-aware of their own self and therefore 'awake' is yet again a higher rating. It's a self-feeding 'glory'/'grace' of biblicalness.

Accept the truth...
Take red pill...
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: PhilNewAGI on October 21, 2019, 01:44:00 PM
Hi,
If you want to dive in what could be consciousness you can read (for example) : Consciousness and the Brain: Deciphering How the Brain Codes Our Thoughts (Author : Stanislas Dehaene). You will have an access to what cognitive psychology know about this field and a lot of scientific references on this subject. If you speak French, your have access to online course for researchers on this subject at "College de France" (3 years course).
You can also read : What is consciousness, and could machines have it? By Stanislas Dehaene, Hakwan Lau, Sid Kouider (https://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/courses/readings/2017.dehaene.pdf)
Philippe.
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: yotamarker on October 24, 2019, 12:03:05 AM
here is how I see it

consciousness : all data goes through one central class
next the AGI can do things with said class like converse or negotiate between wants needs and requests

 self-awareness : the ability to program and recognize other AGIs
a skill like any other. like eating is a simple skill, like fighting, this is another skill.
sometimes humans cant breed for reasons like feminism, so they use this skill to breed but as AGIs.
which was, probably, our purpose to begin with.
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: LOCKSUIT on October 24, 2019, 12:53:25 AM
Quote
sometimes humans cant breed for reasons like feminism

CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: Hopefully Something on October 24, 2019, 01:20:10 AM
It's neat how these things just work themselves out if you give people enough freedom. In China they had to make population laws, lots of extra effort.
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: ivan.moony on November 29, 2019, 07:05:05 PM
Is consciousness a fractal? (http://nautil.us/issue/47/consciousness/is-consciousness-fractal)

I also googled it: https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=is+consciousness+a+fractal%3F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 (https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=is+consciousness+a+fractal%3F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: lordjakian on November 29, 2019, 09:08:42 PM
That one caught my eye:
Quote from: Wikipedia
While consciousness is being aware of one's environment and body and lifestyle, self-awareness is the recognition of that awareness.

That's a very exciting challenge. First, you have consciousness, with external consciousness (being aware of where I end and where my environment begins) and internal consciousness (being aware of what's happening inside of my mind). Then you have self-awareness: being aware that I'm aware of...

Algorithmically, it implies having internal sensors to feel what's happening inside the program (internal sensors send data to program input), including sensors to feel this internal sensor loop. Trying to figure out a minimal algorithm drives me mad.

Did the op implie that dreams can happen?
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: LOCKSUIT on November 30, 2019, 03:44:18 AM
We dream what we see (rotation, location, scale, color, brightness, motion, sexyness, and what it is) based on global context https://ibb.co/hYcVVpB. We can't touch Earth because we are in our brain. Though the whole body is a machine making up the environment, you still don't deserve to be said to touch anything though, air touches air. We are machines from evolution, you really have to go study monkeys on Youtube for 5 years straight and ignore your current ways of living to make a new change possible - such as temporarily ignoring your faith and socializing outside - it is easier than you think, just open the laptop and research for a long long while. There's no God - children with little data don't understand the world we're in, and life is ultra painful as well, there's only an optimal technology called Earth that is getting better at emerging/regenerating from nothing and persisting. We daydream. I dream at night. It makes me think I see a real universe, but I'm just got my eyes closed. Simulating clones of your body/brain in parallel is absolutely possible in a computer. Uploading a AI mind to a distant body can continue its job no matter the worry over if he die and came back. Neurons/humans/data(ex. your eye's blind spot) die every day but we ok and replace bad employees or their update their wisdom and your body CHANGES at the particle level before you even recognize your next brain wave file (i could become a you or a pokemon!! that is attracted to zebras and has more working memory attention etc lol). The machine can't see, no particle arrangement can see! The machine may have a ghost arising from it, but it can't touch Physics because it has no Gears/Mechanics. No brain, no eye, no finger. Neural Networks learn patterns like dogs=cats, dogs drink/run/sleep/lick. Ghosts require predictableness to exist! The universe has only a few laws, which cause massive predictableness. Humans think ghosts in the brain exist only because the machine human wants to survive death, we can and do die every day, we just 'want' food/breeding. We only want it. We try all ways to say don't kill me, we fight, we rob to make our own family, we love only our own kids, we focus on them, we think we are smart because our brain simulates possible likely futures fast with full safety and can go near suns, grow in size, dream away baby. We are smart at resisting death, we think we are alive and this is why we think we shouldn't be killed and are really unique/Good, because rocks don't kick, humans do fight back, humans can solve nearly anything and are not only good at resisting death but also think they are really smart/ don't mock me they say! There's no conscious ghost, only one arising from the machine (it isn't u tho). It may exist...the universe can't see its self if there's only particles with laws. Don't get all happy now, stop it, that's your neural fluids triggering lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMqWRlxo1oQ

DO YOU SEE A GHOST                 DO YOU!!!???
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: Hopefully Something on November 30, 2019, 05:10:08 AM
But it seems like its not as bad as we expect. Logically, realizing you are a machine should raise your perception of what machines can be, rather than reduce your perception of yourself. People say this makes our consciousness not real, but on the other hand, being constructed from matter should seem like the peak of reality. What gives? Granted, things like free will, may not function as we expected them to, but those are names for originating sensations we still possess, so the feelings are still there, they are just made in ways we did not guess. Free will could be simulated by the accumulation and processing of data making us act different with each change in us.
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: goaty on November 30, 2019, 05:11:59 AM
Self-awareness could be as simple as a robot measuring its own body.  but consciousness is a complete picture of self measurement that a robot will never have.
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: LOCKSUIT on November 30, 2019, 05:14:50 AM
Yes, you can name it / hear English words through the air from my lips, and know what data is related and what entails it too. But it'll all be just machines, we aren't any different than the objects in my room, why, the bed in my room is as good as me. Gulp. You will see later, the physics behind us/Earth is emerging / data recursion. Humans are just doing their thing to survive, breed, persist. Our conversation is just a event in this big movie we are in.
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: Korrelan on November 30, 2019, 09:20:00 AM
I agree with HS, it's our personal definition of the word/ concept 'machine' that's causing problems, perhaps we need a different word.

 :)

ED it's the whole 'as simple as possible, but no simpler' paradigm again, I think some people are being way to literal to the conventional/ main stream concept of a machine.

 :)
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: LOCKSUIT on November 30, 2019, 09:41:42 AM
Extremist cyborgs Kardashevs will agree with me. It's all machine, I am, and my house is a machine of which I am a part 'of'. All is particles is my belief, no life, lifeless, burning lifeless, only our bodies is what keeps us going. All my words are like hammers popping out my mouth, and they effect my environment, or my peers pcs.
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: Art on November 30, 2019, 12:47:41 PM
Self-awareness could be as simple as a robot measuring its own body.  but consciousness is a complete picture of self measurement that a robot will never have.

Well, Goaty...be careful...like they say, never say never, for never is a very long time.  ;)
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: hakobian on December 11, 2019, 05:33:18 AM
Does consciousness require emotion?
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: hakobian on December 11, 2019, 05:41:43 AM
AI will be powered with love.  A machine able to focus on it self will be built on a series of fpga's with a feed back loop.  It will not be efficient.
Title: Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
Post by: hakobian on December 11, 2019, 06:08:27 AM
AI will be powered with love.  A machine able to focus on it self will be built on a series of fpga's with a feed back loop.  It will not be efficient.

We dream what we see (rotation, location, scale, color, brightness, motion, sexyness, and what it is) based on global context https://ibb.co/hYcVVpB. We can't touch Earth because we are in our brain. Though the whole body is a machine making up the environment, you still don't deserve to be said to touch anything though, air touches air.

I see you didn't mention texture.   For lucid dreaming, i really cared about texture.

Simulating clones of your body/brain in parallel is absolutely possible in a computer. Uploading a AI mind to a distant body can continue its job no matter the worry over if he die and came back. Neurons/humans/data(ex. your eye's blind spot) die every day but we ok and replace bad employees or their update their wisdom and your body CHANGES at the particle level before you even recognize your next brain wave file (i could become a you or a pokemon!!

"Sign me up!"

 that is attracted to zebras and has more working memory attention etc lol). The machine can't see, no particle arrangement can see! The machine may have a ghost arising from it, but it can't touch Physics because it has no Gears/Mechanics.

Well damn....

 No brain, no eye, no finger. Neural Networks learn patterns like dogs=cats, dogs drink/run/sleep/lick.

 Ghosts require predictableness to exist!

That's why there are tv shows!.

 The universe has only a few laws, which cause massive predictableness.

"Stock Market!"

Humans think ghosts in the brain exist only because the machine human wants to survive death, we can and do die every day, we just 'want' food/breeding. We only want it. We try all ways to say don't kill me, we fight, we rob to make our own family, we love only our own kids, we focus on them, we think we are smart because our brain simulates possible likely futures fast with full safety and can go near suns, grow in size, dream away baby. We are smart at resisting death, we think we are alive and this is why we think we shouldn't be killed and are really unique/Good, because rocks don't kick, humans do fight back, humans can solve nearly anything and are not only good at resisting death but also think they are really smart/ don't mock me they say! There's no conscious ghost, only one arising from the machine (it isn't u tho). It may exist...the universe can't see its self if there's only particles with laws. Don't get all happy now, stop it, that's your neural fluids triggering lol.