Ai Dreams Forum

Artificial Intelligence => Future of AI => Topic started by: Professor OllieGee on July 21, 2019, 04:19:24 PM

Title: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: Professor OllieGee on July 21, 2019, 04:19:24 PM
Not sure if anyone has discussed this in any detail on this forum (Maybe I haven't searched hard enough if there is other subjects on it)
But I am SO excited about autonomous vehicles and have amazing hopes for when it arrives.

1. No traffic jams (all vehicles going at the same speed)
2. Being able to do what you like in the car while you're being driven (watching a movie, working on your laptop, having a beer!)
3. Wherever you go to not having to be sober or be in charge of the vehicle
4. The list goes on...
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: Hopefully Something on July 21, 2019, 09:23:32 PM
They should not have internet though. I think the virus/hacker risk is too high with a moving vehicle. So they would need to go off of what they see, no streams of incoming data that can be messed with.
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: Art on July 22, 2019, 01:43:23 AM
We don't even have "Stand-alone" laptops or cell phones. Everything is connected one way or another. The "Stand-alone" in this case, refers to not being reliant upon some connected server/service/corporation/Internet watchdog.

Linux computer? Umm...I really don't think so as much as we'd all like to believe. Too many ears are trying to listen in.

Driverless cars are dependant upon GPS and radar coordinates unless your car has opted to download and store local or regional maps for your area. We all know how accurate those can be as well.

Good luck with them.
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: Hopefully Something on July 22, 2019, 04:07:19 AM
I'd be happy with a safety feature which would allow you to physically take control of the car, that is idependant of the computer. Might allow more accidents day to day, but we'll be thankful for it if there is a big hack/virus.
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: Professor OllieGee on July 22, 2019, 06:52:57 PM
Well how about this.
The driverless car software/company could guarantee your journeys would be 98% safer (Even including the statistic percentage of any hacks) and you could override it at anytime, surely most would sign up to that.
It would be a big fat yes from me. (And remember there would not be the need for slowing down/speeding up, showing off, speeding and the reactions of the cars would essentially be so much higher and more accurate than that of a human...)

But again these are all if's.
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: AndyGoode on July 22, 2019, 10:40:17 PM
No, no, no. Driverless cars are an extremely bad idea. The technology required for safe, autonomous driving simply does not exist yet, there has already been one fatality from a driverless car, there will certainly be more, very questionable people are pushing this technology, and there is extensive evidence of people hacking into various car parts to monitor or even control a car while it's running. Everything about this technology screams 'No! Watch out!'
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: Hopefully Something on July 23, 2019, 04:00:45 AM
Right. Something was telling me that. I can imagine many horror scenarios. It's a tricky thing, we need some more innovations in this area before I can trust it.
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: Art on July 23, 2019, 02:22:57 PM
For one thing, ALL of the car manufacturing companies would have to employ the same standards of connection or operation so that their Brand X doesn't do things so differently from the Brand Y company's car. Due to so many Proprietary concerns of Corporate Administrators, this might be wishful thinking.

That one incident was allegedly due to a woman pushing a bicycle across a crosswalk. It was actually a lack of Human Intervention that failed to react in time. The car was an Uber test vehicle.

Police:
Video released by the police on March 21 showed the safety driver was not watching the road moments before the vehicle struck Herzberg.

Car's onboard Safety Driver:
...it’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode (autonomous or human-driven) based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway.

Uber: According to reporting by the Phoenix New Times, Mill Avenue contains what appears to be a brick-paved path in the median between the northbound and southbound lanes;[14] however, posted signs prohibit pedestrians from crossing in that location.

A full article can be read here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elaine_Herzberg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elaine_Herzberg)

Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: AndyGoode on July 24, 2019, 12:53:55 AM
That one incident was allegedly due to a woman pushing a bicycle across a crosswalk.

That makes two such fatalities. I was thinking of the crash in Florida in 2016:

https://www.livescience.com/55273-first-self-driving-car-fatality.html
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: Art on July 24, 2019, 12:14:59 PM
The only way I see to avoid such fatalities or human-related incidents is to Remove Humans from the equation. No human drivers and some other method of preventing pedestrians from being struck while crossing the street(s).

It goes back to there being a standardization of operational & safety protocols within the cars' software. Perhaps sending out an "alert" signal whenever the lights at the crosswalk changes.  Eventually, it will get resolved but again, as long as humans are not driving.

Just my $.02
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: squarebear on July 24, 2019, 04:46:19 PM
I can't ever see autonomous vehicles being popular on the road. I just see the problem as being too huge to solve. Sometimes, you need to be slightly aggressive when driving or be stuck at a junction forever. These cars won't edge their way into traffic and very few human drivers will allow them to.

Quote
1. No traffic jams (all vehicles going at the same speed)
2. Being able to do what you like in the car while you're being driven (watching a movie, working on your laptop, having a beer!)
3. Wherever you go to not having to be sober or be in charge of the vehicle
4. The list goes on...
I use this now. It's called a bus.  ;D
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: Hopefully Something on July 24, 2019, 05:24:53 PM
Autonomous car owners are going to get so mad when their car lets others merge.  :2funny:
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: Art on July 25, 2019, 03:22:52 AM
I can't ever see autonomous vehicles being popular on the road. I just see the problem as being too huge to solve. Sometimes, you need to be slightly aggressive when driving or be stuck at a junction forever. These cars won't edge their way into traffic and very few human drivers will allow them to.

Quote
1. No traffic jams (all vehicles going at the same speed)
2. Being able to do what you like in the car while you're being driven (watching a movie, working on your laptop, having a beer!)
3. Wherever you go to not having to be sober or be in charge of the vehicle
4. The list goes on...
I use this now. It's called a bus.  ;D
=============================
You see, that's part of the problem. You stated, "Sometimes, you need to be slightly aggressive when driving..."
Autonomous vehicles would eliminate that from even being a consideration.
Picture ALL vehicles being autonomous. Everyone will have a schedule or appointment and vehicle sharing will be ever more popular so as to avoid 5 cars to haul 5 riders as we do now. What about 100 cars transporting 100 individuals or more. See what ridesharing or car-sharing could do to help eliminate congestion. The autonomous vehicles would negotiate routes via the Network and time schedules. You would arrive safely at work and likewise get picked up and transported home in a safe and timely manner. No accidents, no aggressive drivers shouting obscenities or honking their horns, etc. Safe and timely travel.  There would be no need for human intervention since everything will be handled by the network and the system. In the event of mechanical failure, another vehicle would be quickly dispatched so as not to cause any passenger undue discomfort, stress or tardiness. A win-win situation.

Just saying...that's one possible scenario. You can still run your little go-carts in the dirt field on the weekend or after work, just to maintain that in-control feeling that humans desire.


 
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: goaty on July 25, 2019, 03:28:34 AM
I think its possible to make it work very well,   but how needlessly long its going to take is similar to the domestic robots in the home, and the agriculture ones.   As soon as one is solved they should all be,  but I guess the automonous car is the most risky one tho.
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: Professor OllieGee on July 26, 2019, 01:43:28 PM
Art has hit the nail on the head with his last reply.
This is EXACTLY as I see it all running too, and this can ONLY be done with removing all human intervention.
And you will always know the exact time or each arrival due to the network of autonomy.

Ollie
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: AndyGoode on July 27, 2019, 12:43:56 AM
This is EXACTLY as I see it all running too, and this can ONLY be done with removing all human intervention.

Wow, you guys are serious? You're saying that all people should be forced to give up all driving on all public roads? Just so that some literally idiotic software of the wrong paradigm and wrong hardware can be forced to work? You do realize that autonomous cars use Deep Learning, which is barely any better than backprop, and literally cannot understand *any* concept whatsoever, like what a car is, what a pedestrian is, what a living thing is? Wow. This reminds me of Nickelback's song "If Everyone Cared", or The Bells' song "Fly Little White Dove Fly": if only everyone were nice, if only vows of peace were never broken, if only everyone obeyed the laws, if only everyone would just trust in this/that religious/political entity, if only everyone would just hand over their guns, etc., then we could all live in utopia. Yes, it's all so easy. Sorry, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: Professor OllieGee on July 31, 2019, 11:17:35 AM
Autonomous car owners are going to get so mad when their car lets others merge.  :2funny:

No, again you have no need to get mad on anything including letting other cars merge. You will probably be too preoccupied with doing whatever else you are doing in the car such as working, watching a movie etc to worry about the autonomous actions outside.
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: goaty on July 31, 2019, 11:30:19 AM
If ppl put trust in some dodgy system thinking its as good as the decent professional model (which none of us here can actually make.),  accidents will happen.
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: Professor OllieGee on July 31, 2019, 01:38:51 PM
I don't want to labor this too much, but you are assuming people are going to put trust in a dodgy model, which of course wont happen.
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: goaty on July 31, 2019, 01:44:30 PM
Ok then, you tell me - what does the most safest model involve having in its system?
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: Professor OllieGee on July 31, 2019, 02:49:11 PM
It's been well-publicized we are at least 10 years away from having any kind of commercial rollout.
It is only then when this will all be relevant (probably my fault, this is all future realm apologies if you thought I was referring to the here and now)
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: AndyGoode on August 01, 2019, 12:25:34 AM
I believe when the technology is ready then you'll know it, but I believe it won't be any kind of technology that we would recognize today. I also don't believe the human race as a whole will ever be allowed to use AGI, or even be informed that it exists, but that's another whole topic, and that opinion is based on non-technical reasons.
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: MikeB on October 01, 2019, 07:31:55 AM
Tesla are the most widely known people working on it. But it's not AGI, it's just regular visual scanning, computing where everything is, setting priorities.

They use a variety of cameras, position sensors... including ultra sonics, some low power mmWave (25 to 75ghz) to detect different moving bodies including people, cars, etc.)

Works extremely well, and has an "auto summon" feature that can make the car wake up and drive toward you, including going around corners, at low speed without anyone in the car.

https://www.tesla.com/autopilot (https://www.tesla.com/autopilot)
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: DemonRaven on October 01, 2019, 08:02:23 AM
I am someone who loves robots and that is basically what autonomous cars become and while I think robots can do a lot of good there is a real chance of harm no one seems to think about. All those drivers that drive trucks, bus, taxi's, etc would lose those jobs and guess who gets to pick up the tab for their unemployment one way or another if not directly then indirectly (via use of government food support). That is a lot of unemployed people and frankly i don't like the idea of robots replacing people. Plus to me that would be the most boring car ride imaginable. I like to drive and I don't' like being a passenger.
Title: Re: Driverless cars using AI
Post by: Art on October 01, 2019, 01:51:17 PM
I recently watched a video that said within the next 10 years (give or take) approximately 880 million (truck, delivery, taxi, long-haul 18 wheelers, etc) drivers will be out of their jobs. Between online ordering, branch offices for shipping and the company called OTTO, there will be lots of autonomous vehicles on our roads. Of course, the video said a similar thing happened with the Assembly lines appeared and that it helped create jobs. Yeah...whatever.

The article went on to say that in the very near future, young people will no longer need to know how to drive!

Last year my granddaughter was studying for her driving test. I told her I could get some cones and we could space them in the parking lot. When she inquired why I told her so that she could practice Parallel Parking and that I would show her some tips I'd learned back when I got my license.

She said to me very nonchalantly, Oh, Poppop, we don't need to know how to parallel park. That's no longer on the test!

I was floored, staring at her like the proverbial deer in the headlights. She said, I swear, it's no longer on the test. Most cars have backup cameras and some even have auto-park features so why bother learning something we won't need?

I guess we can't argue with progress or with a very bright 17-year-old!  O0