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41
General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?
« Last post by DaltonG on December 17, 2023, 09:00:18 pm »
"Let's assume there is a group of living beings grown up isolated from any influences from outside cultures. Will the ethics notion in this group of beings be relative to each being, or will it be something absolute which applies to all of them equally?"

As much as we may wish to have guidelines that control human/AI behavior, the reality is that there can be no hard and fast - etched in stone - guidelines for the establishment of Ethics. There's always that Exception to the Rule based on variations in context. The fact that Ethical Guidelines exist in various disciplines is nothing more than a delusional attempt by elitists to impose their preferences on the rest of the population. People conform to ethics when it is convenient and devoid of competing desires.

If you are looking for some way to offset bad behaviors in an AI, then look to altruism and empathy. Both are said to have a genetic foundation. Implement them along with the ability to internalize behavioral responses with juxtaposed on oneself and prediction of the future from similar experiences in the past.

Trying to implement morality and ethics is an exercise in futility (in my opinion). Just take an example like the movement to ban smoking and force the population to quit smoking. Next, what do we have, the legalization of marijuana to increase tax revenues. Ditto for gambling which was illegal every where in the USA, except Nevada, until the government implemented state lotteries to increase revenue.

Ethics is Absolute - until it gets in the way of Reality.
42
General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?
« Last post by MikeB on December 17, 2023, 06:31:00 am »
Is "absolute" another way of saying "long term relative"?

Who determines what is long term relative? Can a person involved in AI ever be non-political? Does the person who programs bias, explain away irresponsibility (poor long-term planning) as a "whoops lol" repetitively?
43
General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?
« Last post by MagnusWootton on December 15, 2023, 07:58:07 pm »
In the case of ethics, implanting them robocop directive style looks like the way to do it.  (so you literally tell it what evil things it does hehe - like saving butterflies and then keeping pests out of the garden.)
And when the inevitable contradiction happens in its model, itll resolve it the best it can.   and a quantum computer would be the best at it, given its huge super permutation power.
44
General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?
« Last post by MagnusWootton on December 15, 2023, 07:30:34 pm »
Contradictive evidence.   No solution.    If its impossible a quantum computer cant even solve it.
45
General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?
« Last post by HS on December 14, 2023, 06:48:56 am »
I always thought simple morals were absolute,  because u can tell when its bullcrap.

But technically, now I'm thinking maybe there is no correct decision when the problem is actually insurmountably impossible to solve, which is what life is.

So thinking that, you cannot actually trust even a 100% correct artificial intelligence, because life contradicts itself like frekin mad.

for example the situation of two men having a fight, which man do you agree with out of the two, I'm either pleasing him or hurting the other, either way its bad,
and some simple solution isn't possible without further analysis, which tends to not even happen in alot of peoples decisions when this comes up.

Huh, now I'm thinking I might actually prefer for an AI to work from a basis of uncertainty rather than a "complete" table of rules. Because that should get it to look at things in terms of interference reduction, which should solve problems instead of masking them. E.g. get those two men to stop interfering with each other in the least obtrusive way possible. I dunno, I could be wrong but it's an idea.
46
General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?
« Last post by MagnusWootton on December 13, 2023, 12:08:00 pm »
I always thought simple morals were absolute,  because u can tell when its bullcrap.

But technically, now I'm thinking maybe there is no correct decision when the problem is actually insurmountably impossible to solve, which is what life is.

So thinking that, you cannot actually trust even a 100% correct artificial intelligence, because life contradicts itself like frekin mad.

for example the situation of two men having a fight, which man do you agree with out of the two, I'm either pleasing him or hurting the other, either way its bad,
and some simple solution isn't possible without further analysis, which tends to not even happen in alot of peoples decisions when this comes up.
47
General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?
« Last post by MikeB on December 11, 2023, 06:28:54 am »
"AI ethics" means political bias
48
AI News / Elon Musk's xAI Grok Chatbot
« Last post by MikeB on December 11, 2023, 06:26:33 am »
xAI is Elon Musk's new AI start up.

Quote
Grok is an AI modeled after the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, so intended to answer almost anything and, far harder, even suggest what questions to ask!

Quote
Particularly noteworthy is its exceptional performance in standard machine learning benchmarks, where it surpassed contemporaries like ChatGPT-3.5 and Inflection-1, only falling short to models with significantly larger training datasets like GPT-4.

A custom training and inference stack built on Kubernetes, Rust, and JAX forms the backbone of Grok's infrastructure. The emphasis on Rust for its high performance, reliability, and bug prevention is a testament to xAI’s dedication to quality and innovation.

I don't know what to expect from these bots, except that since the creators think knowledge is the answer to everything, the bots end up having political/oracle personalities. What's wrong with a street-smart bot? Knows very little but experienced in surviving in the world.

https://www.unite.ai/grok-ai-chatbot-from-elon-musks-xai/

https://grok.x.ai/
49
General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?
« Last post by frankinstien on December 07, 2023, 02:59:22 am »
The democratic system we have in the United States is specifically designed to counter this known problem. This is why we have the Bill of Rights to take certain choices which would be harmful to individuals or small groups entirely off the table. It's also why we have an election system and a legislature that are designed to promote compromise (and yield deadlock if the major factions are unwilling to compromise, which is kind of where we are right now).

Ideally you're correct, while rights are supposed to provide protections, however, if they do get violated it doesn't mean they will be automatically enforced. This has happened through out the history of the US. It get's even worse when our notion of jurisdiction, local, state and federal can provide vacuums where laws can be put on ballots that aren't based on facts but paranoia or discrimination. To get rights enforced isn't necessarily guaranteed. The process could easy fail within the courts themselves and the costs to reach the supreme court isn't cheap! While the civil rights movement persuaded congress to pass laws there wasn't a means to defend the rights of colored people in the courts before that. Another example was the women's right to vote was won when the Suffrage movement aligned its self with the southern states where those women of the south mandated that the Suffrage movement disassociate themselves with black woman, and so they did. What most do not know is when women won the right to vote it only applied to white women.  We can today see why southern states wanted white women to earn the right to vote was to insure that blacks would always be a minority vote, given that black populations could rise but with white women having the right to vote and black women do not that would insure a 2 to 1 advantage for whites.

So, we do have rights in the US, but that is no guarantee that they will be enforced... :-[
50
AI News / Re: Nvidia Hype
« Last post by 8pla.net on December 06, 2023, 10:04:52 pm »
That's a great idea! It would certainly be beneficial to get two RTX 3090 ti cards at the lower end of the price range. You'd get double the memory, and if you have the right setup to support two cards, this could bring a significant boost in performance. Be sure to do your research to ensure it makes sense for your particular needs.
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