[Zero]

Alright Zero - I admit I think you're a human.  I think you're saying that if we can fake it well enough such that observers can't tell the difference - then it is just as good as the real thing.  This is basically Turing again.  But the endeavor here is to create something that isn't faking it.

No, this is not what I'm saying. You didn't understand.

I'm saying that there is no "real thing". So, you can't say "as good as the real thing".

What you call "Zero" is the text on your screen. There's nothing behind this text.
Do you get it?

[EDIT]

There's nothing behind the skin of people, there's nothing behind their flesh.
You might say "there has to be something".
And I would answer: "You're just an observer: in your world, there's nothing else."

The only thing real here is your emotions, generated from your beliefs.

[Art]

Sorry, but for the most part, beliefs have little to nothing to do with emotions. Think about it.

[Zero]

You're wrong Art. Perceptions generate beliefs through interpretation, and beliefs generate emotions. For example, a neighbor tells you that he unfortunately flattened your cat with his car. You believe your cat is dead. So, you're sad. Then your cat comes back from the garden. You're happy again.

[madmax]

Actually beliefs were generated by emotions,as intelligence.But emotions develop through intelligence and form new beliefs.

Do bags have emotions.For me viruses are even more efficient then bugs in some level but to say that bugs are more related to our way of life than viruses.What is origin of emotions,what are basic emotions,happiness, sadness-satisfaction,non-satisfaction.So do bags have some sort of satisfactory mechanism,yes,but that is not intelligence generated and related system.They dont need one they are like constant war machinery and they dont evolve to much they are efficient enough in various conditions and more evolve on outward then inward.They are like and of the road they only reliable on DNA mutations,they are pretty like plants,but they are not evolve from it,if there is not enough ingredients they spread branches.Life has many different roads.

So emotions are like some satisfactory mechanism.First there was just regulatory mechanism which was developed satisfactory mechanism.Regulatory mechanism regulate relations in body but satisfactory relations between body and environment.But satisfactory mechanism is relying on regulatory or derive from it.

Because of complex almost infinite possible relations between body and environment satisfactory mechanism evolve in intelligence.In bugs satisfactory and regulatory mechanism are almost the same thing,because there is no complex sensors or sense and no need for them.Actually they have satisfactory mechanism but it not evolve because is sufficient the way it is, just one life of bug is not that much expansive.

So satisfactory mechanism is allowing evolution of senses and sensors,evolution of sensors is more dependent on environment.From this simplifying approach is possible to understand how emotions create intelligence,and intelligence develop emotions.

But what is satisfactory mechanism,how is working and what is regulatory mechanism how is working are they just DNA coded.If yes what is DNA how create life.

Again i think AI is not possible until we dont know how is life beginning.And if we find out that AI would be needless.

But figuring out how neurons work that is another thing and is very useful,but is not leading to AI for sure,what i think

[hakobian]

My guiding light in anything AI is this.  A perfect and ideallic general AI will be able to expand to know all truth, all fiction, and all unrealized ideas, only limited by reality.

[Art]

@ Zero - Please Define the word, "Belief" that is being used. I do not believe that I am wrong, as you put it.

In face please read the following, taken from Wiki:

Belief is the state of mind in which a person thinks something to be the case, with or without there being empirical evidence to prove that something is the case with factual certainty. In other words, belief is when someone thinks something is reality, true, when they have no absolute verified foundation for their certainty of the truth or realness of something.

Therefore what you perceive as being "real" to you may certainly not hold true for me and vice versa.

People are equipped with emotional attributes from birth...it is in our DNA.
Beliefs are learned experiences much like when one is taught religious practices, etc.

Your interpretation of what my beliefs might be are solely yours and would be, of course, subject to interpretation by me or anyone else.

These beliefs have nothing to do with my emotions at all.

While it might often be true that someone will show an emotion at a wedding or religious event, baptism or burial for instance, there are some who will not show an / any emotion(s).

Just my take and my "belief" for the moment, and I have no emotional attachment while typing this.

Good day!

[Zero]

Art, I agree with the following definition of "belief":

belief is when someone thinks something is reality, true, when they have no absolute verified foundation for their certainty of the truth or realness of something

But I don't forget that only one's own mind is sure to exist. Everything else is belief.

[Freddy]

That sounds more like faith to me Zero...

[ivan.moony]

I don't know about you guys, but I insure you, I do exist.

[Korrelan]

@Ivan

I believe your belief regarding this belief is believable. (Someone had to do it )

But… can you prove it 

[Zero]

That sounds more like faith to me Zero...

Yes, why not... I don't know, maybe it's faith!

I don't know about you guys, but I insure you, I do exist.

Definitely what I would say if I was a fictional character 

@Ivan

I believe your belief regarding this belief is believable. (Someone had to do it )

But… can you prove it 

korrelan... You're unbelievable 

[ivan.moony]

That sounds more like faith to me Zero...

Sounds like a curse to me...

But sometimes (yes, I already thought about it) I'd like it to be the truth, especially when I see suffer and negative emotions that some of us experience non-stop over her/his whole life (imagine being hungry for the whole life, or having an autism disorder). This world is no game for some of us. I wish I can help them all.

[Zero]

You're a good man.

[ivan.moony]

What would happen if an AGI concluded that the entire external world is a fiction? Would it start to rob the poor and give to the rich, or to draw discrimination graffiti over walls of entire city?

Ten really smart people could sit around the AGI instance and they could try to convince it that they really exist. But there is no proof... So how to implant a faith into a machine?

[Korrelan]

What would happen if an AGI concluded that the entire external world is a fiction?

But… it is! It’s definitely a figment of your imagination.

Would it start to rob the poor and give to the rich, or to draw discrimination graffiti over walls of entire city?

So a Robin Hood Banksy lol.

So how to implant a faith into a machine?

Hmmm… Good question,

I bet it involves an old castle and lightning storm, lots of van de graaff generators, a couple of bolts and lots of catgut thread.

Just Joshing 

Edit: Wow! I've got to stop drinking Rum & Posting