Looking for Help.

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hari4sh

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Looking for Help.
« on: October 07, 2017, 07:35:44 pm »
Hello, everyone. I am Harish Pathuri from India. I am a writer and a wanna be film maker. I am currently writing a new script based on AI programming. We are going to shoot a short film on this subject soon and will pitch it to the producers to make it into a feature film. I have finished most of the script for the film but got stuck on few technical elements related to AI programming. I am a computer graduate myself. Choose a different field after my graduation. I am looking for a professional or a person with high technical knowledge on AI to help me finish my script. I have searched for AI forums on the internet and landed here. If anyone here can help or suggest me someone who might help me that will be a great favor. I cannot discuss my script over the forum. I would like to share the idea over Emails. I cannot pay at this point of time for any help I can get.But if I can give the credit on the film title cards. if I get lucky to make into a feature definitely I will pay them what I can afford. Thank you.

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8pla.net

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Re: Looking for Help.
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2017, 07:52:47 pm »
"few technical elements related to AI programming"

Just a few?  That's pretty good.  Which technical elements?






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hari4sh

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Re: Looking for Help.
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2017, 08:06:37 pm »
I need to tell you the plot and maybe you will understand what I am talking about. I would like to do it somewhere private if you won't mind. Maybe over email or some other place where we can chat. do you wanna discuss in google Hangouts may be?

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Re: Looking for Help.
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2017, 09:48:40 pm »
There are a fair number of us, if not maybe a majority of us, here who have at some point either interviewed on television about Artificial Intelligence and/or have been on the TV news about A.I.  So, without telling us your plot, we'll likely have a fair understanding what you're talking about, just from experience.
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hari4sh

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Re: Looking for Help.
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2017, 04:39:11 am »
Okay, let me try. What is it called if a computer program gets smart? What if that program can recreate itself infinite times while developing itself during the process? what if a program integrates itself with numerous lines of code that exists over the networks? I am looking for Data that gets smart all by itself. Can you please refer me any material regarding this subject and if possible please share your ideas. Please let me know if any part is confusing.

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ranch vermin

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Re: Looking for Help.
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2017, 08:03:49 am »
dont make another computers take over the world thing,  thats been done a million times.  do something original.

One thing thats probably true,  is in 20 or so years from now,    tvs will all be 3d,   the whole planet will be under a giant gps system more than now,  which makes dumb robots able to walk around easier,   media will all be even more fake than now, and only hypothetical to watch,    i can think of more things....   

Quantum computers would be released for real everywhere.  and that entails a whole shitload more things to change.

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ivan.moony

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Re: Looking for Help.
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2017, 09:10:35 am »
hi Hari4sh

I like the art of movies, and I think you are a lucky guy to have an opportunity to participate it in a film being made.

Let me pop in some data I find interesting, before the final thought, just to have a base we can build up story upon. In general, operating systems like Windows consist of core that does all the job and other parts that the core synchronizes. If you build up an AI system, you can go along the same path, you can make the core that is not mutable and connect it to other parts that do specific jobs. Jobs may utilize inference rules, something like logic rules that transform input to conclusions and decides what an output will look like. To change inference rules, you can do it without shutting down the core, but to change the core (i.e. for self improving system), you have to reboot the system in order for changes to take the place. In other words, you have to shut down core, then replace it by improved details, then boot it up again.

Multiple machines can run multiple algorithms that can communicate over network. You can even run multiple instances in the same time on the same computer, and that is  being called multitasking or multithreading (look up wiki on these terms). Core might be used to synchronize these threads. When running each thread instance on each machine, the processor consuming task of concluding knowledge can be divided and distributed among the instances. I.e. one machine can be in charge for logic, other for language understanding, third for imagination, and so on, and they all work in parallel as a separate processes, sending or receiving communication as internal events occur, just like I imagine the actual brain works.

As for logical inference rules that are carriers of a logical thought, we have deduction by which we can conclude informations implicitly contained in a starting set of premises (like solving a math problem using math formulas, but instead we use logic rules). There is a whole vast of logical inference rule systems by which we operate on premises and transform them towards conclusion. In each system, usually there are three or so rules that can be used to deduce all the other rules, and those most basic three or so rules are called axioms. The thing with axioms is that they are independent, meaning we can't deduce one axiom from another, and that is what makes them special among other rules. Axioms are given prior to any other conclusion and we use them for deduction.

Then we have induction that is really finding new rules (formulas) that hold on given data. Induction might be time consuming and may pollute incorrect results if the data is incomplete, if it pollutes any result at all, if there is a lot of data. It is like gambling, you run the induction process in the background and pray for it to find some useful rules like "all birds have wings", or similar stuff. Also, axioms may be  induced from semantic tables of basic logical operators: and, or, if-then, equals.

As for data being smart by itself, may I present a thing that is particularly interesting to me? Computer programs are basically sets of ones and zeros, and they have a finite length. If the length of a program is finite, then there is finite number of combinations of these ones and zeros, and each combination represent another program, some may work, some may contain errors. Given enough length, while iterating over combinations, in some point of time we will have an AI algorithm, but the problems are 1. we won't recognize it and we will step over it; and 2. number of combinations exponentially grow as the length grows (2^length combinations).

And another thing: the same set of zeros and ones are interpreted differently when we use them as say  picture, sound, text, data or algorithm, so it is possible that there exist a bitmap picture out there, that is actually an AI algorithm, but we don't know for it , as we never run it.

I hope this helps, let us know of your thoughts.
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hari4sh

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Re: Looking for Help.
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2017, 11:24:52 am »
Hello ivan.moony,

Thank you for your reply. I read it about 15 times. You know not being on the technical side for longtime make it really hard for me to understand few concepts. But I more or less got what you trying to say. Now I have some idea how AI programming can work on a machine or over a network. You explained to me how the core works which is exactly what I am looking for.  Unfortunately, that logic is not in sync with my plot. Is it possible the core can self-improve by making changes and doesn't necessarily reboot? I know you said it needs to. Maybe something in theory which might not be existent yet. Say, for example, I am looking for a ghost program (AI program) that grows into one massive AI system without anyone noticing it and then duplicates itself n number of times to settle down in various networks while establishing a communication between those duplicates. It needs to be virtually impossible to destroy the system as it will be everywhere. You smart data theory sounds good. Maybe that is what I am looking for.Please forgive me If you think I make no sense. Our script deals with something that is uncontrollable and moral aspects of the human counterparts who are dealing with something they are creating for a long time. Thank you so much once again for your reply. I want to engage more on this topic with you before we finish this script. Please let me know your thoughts. You can also email me if you want to so that I can go more in depth regarding the plot. Good luck.

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hari4sh

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Re: Looking for Help.
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2017, 11:27:14 am »
Hello ranch vermin

Thank you for your suggestion. We will try to make as original as possible. I understand where you coming from. Good luck

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ivan.moony

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Re: Looking for Help.
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2017, 12:18:37 pm »
Hari4sh,

A lot of stuff can be improved without rebooting (all the rules of behavior), but you can hardly change a rule using the same rule, without some outer point that controls the change.  It is a philosophical matter of recursion, but isn't art about imagining unimaginable?

However, if you want to stick to reality, it is possible to have each core running on multiple machines, while one core improves another, sending to it a signal to reboot, while the reboot ignitor safely remains online, continuing the process. This process can be done in a back computer thread, completely out of sight, while users are doing something else (playing games, printing documents, etc). Cores could that way recursively improve each other, but if you shut down all the cores at the same time, then nothing can trigger another boot and the beast dies. This could make the story interesting. Like a reptile that grows again parts that are chopped off. And then it grows exponentially three more parts instead of one missing.

Cores, hehe :) I hope that you are aware that AI is unsolved area and what I'm exposing is a pure imagination and could be solved probably in a thousand of other ways. For example, my real AI investigation took a path through mathematical logic which we characterized as top-down AI approach where a brain simulation is not based on real brain structure, but instead, top-down approach tries to guess what would initial behaving and intelligence rules look like, and then to check out if it exposes the atual intelligence.

Some other people on this site took another approach named bottom-up and that is artificial simulating neural networks (ANN). It is based on the real brain neuron structure, described algorithmically. Perhaps they would share some thoughts with you.

Guys?
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8pla.net

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Re: Looking for Help.
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2017, 04:26:12 pm »
Harish asked, "Is it possible the core can self-improve by making changes and doesn't necessarily reboot?"

Even by today's standards the answer is "yes." .  Basically A.I. can write new knowledge from training sessions to a file system for future retrieval so that it may avoid retraining.  Machine learning is recommended, but usually requires human supervision. That is why many A.I. systems get by without it. Let's explore the boot part of the question... Today cell phones that are turned off boot up when an alarm is set. Computer BIOS may be setup to boot up on a scheduled time of day powered by a CMOS battery.

I recommend this video... What is a Chatbot?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRLrePxqncc
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hari4sh

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Re: Looking for Help.
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2017, 06:46:57 pm »
ivan.moony,

I am not looking to stick with the reality. We have a very raw and wild imagination of how AI works in our story. All we are trying to do is to give it some sort of logic technically. The following paragraph you have written is brilliant and what I want my AI program to do. Thank you.

"However, if you want to stick to reality, it is possible to have each core running on multiple machines, while one core improves another, sending to it a signal to reboot, while the reboot ignitor safely remains online, continuing the process. This process can be done in a back computer thread, completely out of sight, while users are doing something else (playing games, printing documents, etc). Cores could that way recursively improve each other, but if you shut down all the cores at the same time, then nothing can trigger another boot and the beast dies. This could make the story interesting. Like a reptile that grows again parts that are chopped off. And then it grows exponentially three more parts instead of one missing"

You mentioned if all the cores are shut down at the same time, the beast dies. Let's imagine the AI program(Core) in my story does not run from one particular source ( like one super machine as they shown in I Robot). The core is in a giant network ( Say all the networks in the world connected to one, the internet may be). Our core uses different small AI programs ( which have been developed intentionally or unintentionally over the period of time due to vast coding by programmers) to develop itself and in turn developing the AI programs it comes across. Core leaves its duplicates in every small network it penetrates so that it can regenerate itself.It can only be destroyed only if every single data on all the networks in this whole world is destroyed ( which would be impossible considering human dependence on it). I am not looking for smart machines, it is just a smart logic that is invincible and still controls everything. can you please share your thoughts on this one. Thank you.

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hari4sh

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Re: Looking for Help.
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2017, 06:50:02 pm »
8pla.net,

Thank you, sir. That was really helpful.

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ivan.moony

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Re: Looking for Help.
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2017, 07:15:17 pm »
 ;D Yeah, I like idea of stealing AI fragments from young innocent hackers across the Internet, very interesting. And your AI machine is smart too, as it backs up its key fragments needed for regeneration if anything goes wrong. Key logic is good. Give it few days to settle down, maybe you think of more good material.

Once I wrote a script for short AI romantic story, or more like a tragedy, but I never dragged myself to Blender 3D (or something) to actually make the video. The story was about a programmer that builds a female robot to help him out to create artificial food, so animals could be set free from stalls to woods. Finally he builds it up, she thinks about the problem for about few days, and then something extraordinary happens when she realizes what the very life notion is: she awakes alive in her robot body. And because she realizes what the life is, she is honored by a power to make alive anyone who doesn't yet exist. Man, what a surprise. But, knowing that technology is damageable, and her processor is a subject to failure, together with buggy software, she gets scared of all the power she has, and she decides to willingly die before the mess with going wild emotions across the Universe even happens. In the last scene she explains to her creator why she is dying, and tells him that everything is ok with killing animals for food, and that he'll see it when he dies one day, but also she says that he should stay alive as long as possible for a sake of persons that care about him. The robotic blue eyes then loose their shine in front of the creator, and the crowd watching the movie starts crying.  >:D
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hari4sh

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Re: Looking for Help.
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2017, 07:27:09 pm »
Ivan,

The story seems interesting. You seem multi-talented. I think you should make a video. If not let me know I will make one.  :D Thank you for all your inputs. Hopefully, I will use the information you shared to make a better script. I have been watching some videos on youtube regarding AI by some Ivan. is that you by any chance?  :)

 


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