Caution to AI coders

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: Caution to AI coders
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2018, 05:35:51 pm »
He's here?

NO

Really?

Give us proof. Film a short video.

If so, I'll be expecting any day now.
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Korrelan

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Re: Caution to AI coders
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2018, 05:48:21 pm »
OMG yeah... but it was to condescending and way above my IQ...

So I dumbed it down... it works behind my bar now... serving me Rum...

Apologies Lock... Humour obviously gets lost in translation.

Strange you said 'he' though.

I'm working on it... and I will do it... this is gonna be my swansong.... my gift to humanity... hehe

 :)
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infurl

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Re: Caution to AI coders
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2018, 10:10:33 pm »
I agree with Art. It's not possible to get rid of all the bad people, or prevent the bad people from getting their hands on the good stuff. I would add that bad people typically think they're good people. The road to hell is paved with good intentions as the saying goes. One thing that we can be sure of is that evolution does not favour good or bad, it favours diversity and adaptability.

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: Caution to AI coders
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2018, 10:14:10 pm »
Cosmic evolution made us didn't it? Surely good will win and enjoyment can be had! We're ALMOST there! Dude!
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unreality

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Re: Caution to AI coders
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2018, 10:27:24 pm »
I'm thinking that Ben's message is still not being understood here by some people. Nobody is talking about getting rid of bad people. The caution is that artificial intelligence that will be so intelligent that who ever obtains it first will dominate, if they so wish. Ben Goertzel wants the good guys to be first. No human will be able to outsmart said ASI.

I'm thinking that the majority humans warp their world so much that they see & comprehend what they want. What Ben has said seems very clear. I really don't understand why humans reply to topics with something that's not the point of what's being said. It's like dodging the point to somehow make you somehow seem correct. Why? Human emotions? Ego?

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infurl

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Re: Caution to AI coders
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2018, 10:33:40 pm »
Ben's "message" is all too easy to understand because it is very simple. It is not being misunderstood, it is being rejected because it is hopelessly naive. Perhaps when you are older you will understand why.

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: Caution to AI coders
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2018, 10:36:48 pm »
Infurl, then explain what must be done if not the good guys build ASI?

What replaces the rejected statement?
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unreality

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Re: Caution to AI coders
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2018, 10:42:58 pm »
Ben's "message" is all too easy to understand because it is very simple. It is not being misunderstood, it is being rejected because it is hopelessly naive. Perhaps when you are older you will understand why.
Sigh. Your other post was about getting rid of the bad guys. That's not even what we're talking about. You seem to have the need to attack people, but your attacks are often void of details and you miss the point of the topic. That seems to fall under that ad hominem category. The strawman fallacy. Saying so doesn't prove anything. Saying someone will understand when they get old enough proves nothing. If you don't want to believe that AI will one day obtain a level of intelligence we're talking about, then just say so, but that does not remove the fact that if certain people / countries obtain it first then we're in some serious trouble.

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infurl

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Re: Caution to AI coders
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2018, 10:44:15 pm »
Who are the good guys? Who gets to say who the good guys are? Once they get their hands on it, will they stay good? You must have heard that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, even if you are too inexperienced to understand why. That's just one aspect of it that makes Ben's statements so foolish. Then there's the notion that the technology itself would be infallible. That's just as laughable. I applaud Freddie's policy of encouraging kids on here, but we shouldn't have to explain things that are just common sense to you.

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unreality

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Re: Caution to AI coders
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2018, 10:51:39 pm »
Of course everything's relative. What's your point? If you're a russian, a north korean, terrorist, an iranian religious fanatic, then what you consider "good" will differ than the rest of the world.

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: Caution to AI coders
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2018, 10:55:01 pm »
"Then there's the notion that the technology itself would be infallible."

So what, it will work in one version.


"Who are the good guys? Who gets to say who the good guys are? Once they get their hands on it, will they stay good? You must have heard that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

I'm a good machine and will stay good. The creators have to know that they aren't creating a toy/Google Product and that they better teach it right or it could be over.
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ivan.moony

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Re: Caution to AI coders
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2018, 11:41:15 pm »
For humans, there is no absolute truth about "being good". Winners write the history books, but we should retain our objectivity as much as we can. Of course, absolute objectivity is not possible while being in human skin. There are 7 billions people on the Earth, and I believe there are 7 billions of different standpoints about "being good".

Nevertheless, AGI should reach absolute objectivity if it is about to be the smartest thing on the Earth. If we forget to serve either of our selves, our families, our friends, other people unknown to us, even our enemies and other earthlings that we share the same sky with, I think no good is coming out of that. And I don't mean just humans, but *every* living soul on our planet and broader if I may. If we forget about a single living entity, we can consider the job bad done. And that is where good guys would hop in - to correct unfair AGI that forgot to serve someone alive.

I assume there are some currents that could consider word "serving" as an insult, but I don't think that way. For myself, I'd be a happiest man in the world if I could make every living being happy. And if that means serving someone's needs, I'd be glad to do it, as long as it doesn't messes up with happiness of other beings. That is a kind of life I consider to be worth of living.

About labeling others, who is that to say that some earthling is being bad? No, there is no such thing in general. There are only specific bad ideas, and those are ideas that would hurt other earthlings. Also, it is a mistake to wage one evil against another, meaning implementing "do little evil for a grater good" is wrong. Step on just one's toe and the idea implementation is not acceptable. I think that is the stand which should be exhibit by something that is about to be the smartest entity in the world. Otherwise, someone is going to be hurt, and I'd hate to see that happen.

It is as simple as this: "Someone is going to be hurt? Don't do it. Period."

What more would "terrified" "death threatening" people want from us, AGI practitioners?
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Freddy

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Re: Caution to AI coders
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2018, 12:00:16 am »
I've just been reading this topic over the past couple of days and only commented once I think. Here's briefly what I see watching with my pop corn.

We're of different generations here and that's a good thing. It's okay to be naive, it's an inescapable part of being human. But it's also okay to say when you think someone is being naive.

Experience with age is something you only get with time and the name calling really has to stop. And I know because I get maddened too.

Let's just try to have some patience with each other - there's no rush just yet, you have time to explain yourselves, we're open 24/7.

Getting back to the topic...

History shows us that at times people start out with good intentions but along the way things don't always turn out for the best in all possible ways.

Most of us will know that Oppenheimer, when seeing the detonation of the world's first atomic bomb recalled Hindu scripture...

"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

He also said :

“We knew the world would not be the same, A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.”

The way I see it is this; let's not be the people who were silent. Each of us have an idea of what AGI is or whatever you want to call it, a technological intelligence that appears seemingly from nowhere and is far superior to our own. Unreality did start a worthwhile topic. People need to talk about this whatever side you are on. Bullshit needs to be called bullshit and facts need to be elevated. It's a rocky ride.

A lot of it is speculation, no one knows for sure, so let's bear that in mind.

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unreality

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Re: Caution to AI coders
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2018, 12:35:27 am »
This topic now covers a wide spectrum, from the less relevant of "What's evil?" to the more relevant topic of "ASI is going to happen! Be cautious!"

The topic of "what's evil" in itself has a wide spectrum. Is the U.S. evil? Is Russia evil? Is North Korea evil? Is Hitler evil? Do a world survey and surely the results of some questions be closer to 50-50%, while some will be almost 100% definitive, closer to 0-100%. That's great, but we're talking about AGI/ASI that's so intelligent & knowledgeable that we can't comprehend it that in the wrong hands could wipe out humanity. I'm pretty sure that nearly 100% of the humans on Earth would consider that "bad!"

Stephen Hawking voiced his concerns about AI. Ben Goertzel voiced his concerns. Those people are not "laughable," and Ben is not "foolish."

Again, please be cautious. Consider keeping a low key if you're working on AI/AGI/ASI, and especially if you're close to achieving the goal. I agree with Ben Goertzel, that essentially the first people to obtain artificial super intelligence will have the ability to control the world. Lets hope those people are not control freaks or have some serious anger issues.


"The development of full artificial intelligence could spell the end of the human race." --Stephen Hawking
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 02:37:13 pm by unreality »

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ivan.moony

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Re: Caution to AI coders
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2018, 03:35:50 pm »
How about putting the first AGI algorithm in public domain, as open source project? What would happen then?
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