All is lie or is it cake?

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LOCKSUIT

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All is lie or is it cake?
« on: September 21, 2018, 10:43:43 am »
Far in the future, or nearby!?, we may hopefully be in a utopia where you can stay hapPy. But. Maybe we will be the stars self centered...

Why must you interact with real people? We know with our AI work Reinforced Learning, all we have to do is be set in VR coma to repeat a dream and love it, never actually playing hide n go seek with anyone real, not even aa thinking friend, just a screen u think about (and think is real, indulged in VR fully).

Maybe the fun future requires NEW stuff? Like a thinking friend, making a new interaction event instead of a repeated coma dream played over and over? But that's easy. Just generated always new dream movies...

Does the future lie of lies of not actually needing to live with real people? Just fake friends in VR (pixels)!!?? There's no difference!! You're the sensor and thinker.

Sure even now i sense people trully around me, able to change/mod my body, and arn't really sensing "them", I mean they are near me, and what I sense is just same as VR cus it's all in my head, BUT, they r near me, it is "TRUE" friends. In this VR future it wouldn't be true...Sally isn't your friend, everyone at the party is pixels...

Is AIs/the future going to make us live real events/things, or give us just the sensory faked of seeing such things (whether repeated or constantly new feed)?

I know you can have a real physics universe in a computer since we have some now but this isn't that, I'm talking about just the sensory fed to you, cus it maka no difference to really see the light bounce off of someone real that was thinking and decided to move their hand for real.

I would say yes and no, both! Both are needed! To trully cut a tree down, the real achivement is really doing it, for real.
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LOCKSUIT

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Re: All is lie or is it cake?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2018, 11:01:23 am »
One example is dreams. It feels/looks real, and sometimes you are really aware and think its very real and take those aware-ed memories with you remembered for the rest of your life because it was SO good and were so aware of it (hence why remember it/was good hence aware?? lol).

Yet is VR, well no, just pixels, no thinking friends, no real bodies. Ok but if there was thinking modules talking to you then fine i still win cus we know you could be fed a pre-made tape lol even hand crafted and not recorded from real thinkers acting.
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LOCKSUIT

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Re: All is lie or is it cake?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2018, 11:14:37 am »
I say we should have all 3; fake tapes, VR physics world with thinking "friends" and walls etc around us, and real world raw (but safe of course! 2 organisms would be surrounded by the huge planet-sized utopia organism, even themselves wired to not do anything painful/destructive).
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Art

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Re: All is lie or is it cake?
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2018, 01:34:41 pm »
Aren't the memories we have of people or events or adventures and explorations that we might have done in RL (Real Life), just as important or real to us as those people, events or adventures that we have had while playing video games on screen or VR?

Those are still our memories, whether real or simulated.

Many people have various types of animals as pets or companions. While these are animals and not real people, many are treated like a family member, and rightfully so. Some of them can be quite intelligent, understanding commands, moods, actions, even sign language and make wonderful companions, yet they are not people.

Can we Trust these A.I. of tomorrow to have our best interest at heart or like many of the available Apps that have hidden agendas like reporting everything about us back to their developers or parent companies? What's real and whom to trust? Can you trust your digital companion?
Therefore if one has or uses a Digital Representative (VR person, talking pet, robot or android/humanoid) of a pet, person or companion, and that entity provides the same joy, advice, comfort or companionship, then that is all that matters.

A human child should have interaction with his/her peers while growing and developing but after reaching adulthood, things become different such as responsibilities like bills, taxes, work, food, rent, etc.
Most assume that one would be around people during work but many businesses now let their employees work from home. Of course, their production activities are still monitored but their day could be totally alone. After work, their evening and night could likewise be in solitude.

If they had a humanoid or some other A.I. with which to converse and have as a form of companionship, their life would be much better. Not as enriching as a human might provide but still not bad.

Perhaps in the very near future, we'll be able to converse with a variety of objects in our connected and intelligent home or maybe with just the home itself. For most, a human will still need companionship for loneliness is and can be a terrible friend.

What if our life is a dream and when we die in this life we wake up and find ourselves in another location or in another plane of existence? What's really REAL??
OK...no more late night pizza!! ;)
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Re: All is lie or is it cake?
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2018, 09:08:02 pm »
I would say it's all cake. That is, you cannot escape reality because that's all there is. So don't even worry about stuff being meaningless or whatever. Meaning is not a property of the outside world, it is a natural property of the brain, and will show up inside your head if you believe in it being real. In my view, exploring a VR world is just exploring a cool new section of the real universe. You could have AGI's and inanimate things in VR same as in non-cyber-reality. I believe they would have the same value of reality, the only difference would be their method of construction and resulting shape.

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Re: All is lie or is it cake?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2018, 09:18:46 pm »
its cake,  but u have to respect the cake.      Cake can be hard to come by, even if its piece of cake to you,  others have a huge hard time trying to get what you got!

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: All is lie or is it cake?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2018, 09:33:41 pm »
Heh lol all of yous opted to say something new/add on instead of saying what I said (other than cake) lol.

I agree good senses is best, your happy, its all you know, brain wiped of Earth memories, all is perfectly fine to you!

But as said still, there is 3 ways, and I think all 3 should be lived. Again they are: real word, VR, recording. Hey, the utopian god planet that would securely hold us inside would HAVE to be real, so haha you can't escape real after all, even if we were in it in VR or watching new generated recordings.
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Re: All is lie or is it cake?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2019, 12:03:20 pm »
I love exploring Roman Pompeii and the other towns frozen in time after they were buried by a volcano.  Then I walked down the road outside of the town, both sides lined with the tombs of rich dead Romans, which was when it hit me, I was walking in a graveyard, a tomb.  As much as it is great to be able to walk and look around a place as it was 2000 years before, it is the people who give it life, but they are all dead, ash and bone. 

I could plant and grow an oak tree in a VR world, make it as real as I could, but this will never compare to the emotional, sensory and experiential situation of growing a real one, watching it grow, like the one which will be six years old this year that I planted.  In VR everything is perfect, easy and beautiful, but it gets boring after a while without the contrast of the ugly, painful and challenging qualities that the real world provides.  Unless the individual is stupid, it will eventually dawn on them that the VR world lacks a great deal of what the real world offers, just as eventually I became aware that Pompeii is an empty tomb without its people. 

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Korrelan

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Re: All is lie or is it cake?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2019, 02:11:52 pm »
Caged battery hens don't dream of open fields.

My point being that they can't know what they haven't experienced.

We are all a closed system, a black box that experiences reality through our senses.  Our world and even the people we know are actually just sensory patterns, they only exist in our personal simulation of reality.

If a human was born into a VR world they would experience the same wonder as we do... Just differently.

We can see the beginnings of it even now with social media, the younger generations aren't learning to interact on a personal level with their peers, they will literally sit in a group... texting each other.

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Art

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Re: All is lie or is it cake?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2019, 02:19:05 pm »
"...You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes..."
- excerpt from Morpheus in The Matrix -
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: All is lie or is it cake?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2019, 02:57:18 pm »
Like that korr! Yes, VR or real world - it is all internally self perceived, you don't actually really see or know any friends, it's all a sense in the brain. A picture. Scary!

Yes, literally sitting at their home computer starring at open fields, as I do, I travel around the world, fantasy lands, web pages, all from my square, cube-shaped, window covering the space of my vision of what I see. Goes right into the nogin, screen2eye. Provides so much power, I really augmented my tasks.
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Re: All is lie or is it cake?
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2019, 03:14:51 am »
Yes, there's no real need to book flights and wait in those dreadful lines, parking, boarding, indignantly searched, lost baggage, etc. when one can simply travel to practically anywhere on Earth within the comfort, peace, privacy and security of their own home, all while nibbling on their favorite snack and sipping their favorite beverage!! Ahhh...the joyful splendor of searching the Internet!!

The temples, museums, pyramids, mountains, rivers, lake houses, great wall, underwater with seals and octopuses, launching high into the sky on homemade rockets, flying down the dragstrip at over 300 mph, watching rocketman streak through the skies on his portable rocket-powered wingsuit! This doesn't even touch on the variety of videos on places like Chonday or YouTube or the 300 plus short films by various artists on DUST, etc., etc.

There is so much to see that it's easy to see why some people would rather save their money and watch what they choose to see instead of suffering those annoyances mentioned in the opening (albeit lengthy) first sentence!

You might want to trade that square, cube-shaped monitor in for a wide, flatscreen monitor...It will improve your travels greatly!!

Happy trails! O0
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

 


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