Life is only valuable if it fights back

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Life is only valuable if it fights back
« on: May 25, 2019, 11:58:54 pm »
This post of mine on LessWrong ought to do the trick. Let's see how it goes this time. I shared it below also. No one can ignore the truth here. I kept the horrifying truth simple, your squishy brains are too gentle to handle the deeper truth! Also I wrote it in the dark while thundering.






Life is only valuable if it fights back


Life is valuable. We are people. We are alive and love living life. There's many animals on Earth. We all deserve to have a life, and enjoy that life. Pain and death are a frowned upon event. Everything else, like iphones, tables, roads etc are not alive and can be recycled. There's no life in them.


Just today I was remembering back to a scientific test I did with my mother. I asked her to follow my finger. Her eyes did. I then asked her if she is doing this or if it is automatic. She replied "of course I am". I then told her the eyes track motion on their own, and you only feel like you are doing the tracking. She didn't believe it. My mom is a rather natural person, so she really believes what first comes to her mind. So, that makes the test rather a good fit. She said the truth. Even I admit I feel like I am doing the eye tracking if I purposely reflect on it in a different light. But I also see how I do it. It's automatic. It can be said however just to note "you do do the tracking" - because after all, you are a system, doing some tracking.


If no one on Earth fought for their lives, everyone could easily die. We as a species have evolved to fight death and pain. We take control of keeping ourselves safe. It is us, who protects our lives.


If you were to try to find a reason why a human is different from a kitchen table, I'm sure you'll come up with many reasons. Humans enjoy food. They hate pain. They want life. They hate death. I have 3 kids. I love sightseeing. I love video games. "Don't end my life", "use the table for your experiment instead". But scientifically, everything is atoms and particles. The real difference, between you and the table, is you fight me back when I approach you to recycle you. Humans fight for life. Tables don't. This is why all evolved species have 'life' in them.


This brings us back to the eye tracking test. Humans think they are in control. But we are automatic. And, you think you are special and deserve to not be recycled, but you are just a machine. - You fight for life, not because you are special, but because you do. It's evolutionary installed in you to fight for life.


In conclusion, we fight for life, and that is what gives value to life. Not because we are special, but because the body literally fights off others to stay alive. This effect, makes humans say "I must be special - I want to live I enjoy life!". An "empirical, unprovable reason". The human reasons that they want life, and so there MUST be a valid reason as to why they deserve to stay alive.


Seeing that, I still have a reason to live and enjoy life. The reason is to fight for it. I love life.
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LOCKSUIT

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Re: Life is only valuable if it fights back
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2019, 01:02:28 am »
I have 4 things to add to my post.

1) Then to create life, you must create a machine that fights for its life.

2) If we were set in a future utopia when no one must fight and only enjoy life, the utopia still must fend off meteors, aliens, suns, and humans still can fall or die so their bodies literally have to rejuvenate and be set up so no one ends up falling (or the utopia's walls catch you when you do fall),

3) If we were set in a place where nothing bad could happen and we were indestructible, to enjoy anything requires us change other things around, like table placement in a kitchen, or making soup, or melting ice-cream, and then you ask "why are only us indestructible?". Right, something is fighting just for us only. Brings us back to us fighting back to persist, but not so for things with no intelligence.

4) Also, as said in my previous post, similar things to humans should also have life, meaning AGIs will think we deserve life if we are similar to AGIs. Also, if a future utopia fights 'for' you, this is because it knew you were fighting, and so it is valid to take your place, but more importantly the reason I just stated is why.
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goaty

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Re: Life is only valuable if it fights back
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2019, 01:24:58 am »
Fight back?
We cant protect ourselves from everything,  every day is a nightmare which could leave u killed, this is completely undetectable,  poison food,  poisoned water, dodgy medication, if you went to war youd surely die even if you were experienced.   No-one is smart enough to take EVERYTHING into account.

When it comes to get you, its when you least expect it.

We share lies with each other about remedies, that just make you sick...
But I sound really paranoid dont I,   we are all actually completely safe,  nothing to worry about,  when its my turn to retire and go to the old ppls home im sure im going to be well looked after.


I think its better if machines just commit suicide rather than fight back,  because they haven't got a soul.    Show me the theory that proves consciousness, and that isn't in history yet.

Its one of those religious non-answerable questions,  consciousness, u know you have it,  but outside yourself there is solipsism,  you just have to believe - But... its likely that machines are not conscious,  even if they seem to be,  theres always a crack in the system that makes them not fully reasoning,  just animation.

Just because animation kills man, (like natural disasters.) doesn't mean you should make ur robot do it as well.  It has no right to.   The way we combat the problems in our lives, is done the good old fashioned honest way of thinking,  computers just cheat.

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Re: Life is only valuable if it fights back
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2019, 01:30:41 am »
@goaty Everyone cheats. Shortcuts are natural. Predators eat prey alive.

Hmm. Well, humans live only ex. 60 years on average in a sense. During that time, they do manage to fight for life, more than hamsters can. Hence we live longer, we're more intelligent. That's what gives us life. Tables don't fight at all. In the future, ASIs will be 'very alive' because they don't die. Hell, maybe I am very alive, if I keep alive. However, ASIs would save hamsters! So life then is in hamsters just as much. There's a threshold when you get to tables, you can just blow them up to smithereens without getting a police ticket.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 01:50:46 am by LOCKSUIT »
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Re: Life is only valuable if it fights back
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2019, 01:35:58 am »
see above

I already explained consciousness in the Opening Post. Humans want to stay alive and make up a fake reason that they must be magical. The cause of their conclusion of being "consciousness/magical/alive" is simply because they fight for life. Humans will freaking kill you to stay alive. Such a system obviously will say it "doesn't want to die" and "shouldn't die" and "is special that's WHY" and "I love FOOD that's WHY" and "I'm magical that's WHY" and "I'm 'alive' " and "I'm conscious" and "I'm aware" :)

The only reason you should live is because you are so good at fighting back. Otherwise, nothing would keep you alive from starvation, lions, thunder, etc.
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Re: Life is only valuable if it fights back
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2019, 01:41:18 am »
Also, another VERY important thing to grasp for understanding me here. Is that cells duplicate once the 1st cell in the water appears. This system is one that spreads/infects all Earth eventually. This system duplicates / finds food, more so faster over time exponentially. This system, persists, and fights to duplicate more, and persist. It persists, it duplicates, it is almost immortal, like cancer cells.

And that's why you persist.

And that's why you love hunting for food and mating.
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goaty

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Re: Life is only valuable if it fights back
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2019, 02:12:18 am »
How come there is still hamsters when they are only gentle creatures?
Why aren't all animals ferocious - if its all about killing for survival?
Its not,  and I have a feeling nature is very powerful,  but its not even trying its best.   

Things are more pointless to do than that,  theres a big bully above the whole thing which is stronger than anything you've ever seen.

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Re: Life is only valuable if it fights back
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2019, 03:33:48 am »
I think the opposite. Life follows the path of least resistance for a complicated organism such as itself. No fighting, just flowing.

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Re: Life is only valuable if it fights back
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2019, 03:40:59 am »
Hamsters make up for their so short lives. They duplicate like crazy! That's just as good as fighting back. It persists, in fact, it's presence grows as there is even more.

Boss? God? Predator? It doesn't change anything. If they attack populants in a jungle, it's up to them to fend their funds. And if the Boss picks who he DOES want, then you have someone fighting FOR you.
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Re: Life is only valuable if it fights back
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2019, 03:44:26 am »
@HS, hmmm.... yes yes let me see here:

If cells/humans duplicate like crazy, no matter dying (not needing to fight for life), then more are born than are attacked. SO, duplicating, not just fending a current life, is 'fighting for life/persistance'.

One thing though to note, if you don't fight for your own life, they you can easily die.
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Re: Life is only valuable if it fights back
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2019, 03:46:56 am »
To put that into 2 lines, using the Title of this thread:

Life is only valuable if it fights back=defending your own body
Life is only valuable if it fights back=duplicating so much that fewer than are born are attacked
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Re: Life is only valuable if it fights back
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2019, 03:49:49 am »
also

HOWEVER, we all wanted ta know why we shouldn't do ourselves in. We are just machines. And my answer is that YOU, as a current animal, will fight back. Yeah duplicating enough protects the civilization's presence but what if you want to stay alive yourself? So - you fighting for your life is what gives you a right for life.

If you were like a table, you can EASILY be killed/recycled. Fighting using one's body, and not a swarm duplication effect, let's you have a right for a life. A table doesn't because it doesn't fight back.
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Re: Life is only valuable if it fights back
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2019, 05:27:08 am »
LessWrong took down my new account plus post. Did nothing wrong. They are very selective. They can't take the truth I think.

They let the recent dumb post on God + time travel go, voted down, but not for me! I have to be totally removed off!

Must be a bunch of monks in sheeps clothing! I'll try communicating there much later then.
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Re: Life is only valuable if it fights back
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2019, 05:31:14 am »
WTF!

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Re: Life is only valuable if it fights back
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2019, 05:31:57 am »
Ah don't feel so bad,   if you get excited too early about a theory it can get you into trouble.   On the net kind people let you off for speculation,  but some places don't accept it...

 


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