Electronic Longevity

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Electronic Longevity
« on: June 20, 2019, 11:03:01 pm »
Anything we make breaks down. The more complicated it is the faster this happens. There is a water wheel that has been turning since 1854 on the Isle of Man, a light bulb has been glowing since 1901 in Livermore California. Those are relatively simple constructs. When you start talking about cars the time frame begins to shrink. Desktop computers, laptops, cellphones, down down down, the more compact and complex our machines and electronics get, the more strings entropy gets to pull, and the sooner things begin to unravel. A functional AGI that is also a body, (as opposed to an unwieldy government complex), will be the epitome of cramped complexity. How can we get them to have life spans past a few months?

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AndyGoode

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Re: Electronic Longevity
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2019, 12:08:30 am »
How can we get them to have life spans past a few months?

Elon Musk.  :)

More seriously...
Easy. The same way our bodies do it: continual replacement, though at the component level, not the cellular level.

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Re: Electronic Longevity
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2019, 02:05:51 am »
A good strategy,  but they are going to have to carry bags of components on long trips. They should probably also use the buddy system, in case one can't repair itself. Practical, but not very... cool. I am hoping for some kind of reliable electronics featuring lots of redundancies. Or some other idea which would allow for some reliability.

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goaty

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Re: Electronic Longevity
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2019, 02:24:47 am »
Cool post.
They've got ancient robots from the 50's that can still kick along. made from good strong metal,  but I guess their systems are simple.
Robots are easier to repair than us,  if something horrible enough happens to a living thing, you may as well just get the rifle out and put it out of its misery.

I think the next gen produce coming out 2025? or whatever (Ive just personally shifted the singularity 5 more year buffer... :P) Its probably going to be pretty fancy, but theres nothing that precious there mate,  they are only machines,  I don't care how "generalized" the programming gets.

And one more thing,   make 1 super million dollar super brain robot,  and you've got 10 million and more of them as well,     you can put a million dollar price tag on a lamborgini diablo, and it really is worth it! the design and function is very luxurious, like the feel of a trophy wives wonderous interior,  but that doesn't change the fact you make them for 50c each, en masse' as much as you could be bothered to set the factory up for.  ;)

Just look up cpu prices,  you get them for 1c doesn't matter how many transistors it is, affects the cost of the end design very little, unless they want to pace the consumers, that's all It means.

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Re: Electronic Longevity
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2019, 07:52:44 am »
Maybe we should look at optical discs, some types are rated to last 1000 years. You could store the critical data on those. Keeping flash memory super cooled might do some good aswell.

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Korrelan

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Re: Electronic Longevity
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2019, 12:34:25 pm »
Our device has an intrinsic data storage time that is predicted to exceed the age of the Universe, yet it can record or delete data using 100 times less energy than DRAM.

https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/news/-discovery-of-a-holy-grail-with-the-invention-of-universal-computer-memory

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AndyGoode

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Re: Electronic Longevity
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2019, 05:29:34 pm »
A good strategy,  but they are going to have to carry bags of components on long trips.

Redundancies are easy to create. I heard that all critical components on one of the U.S.'s space flights had 5-fold redundancy: switches, sensors, actuators, etc. That's one issue.

By analogy, you could ask why a backpacker doesn't need to carry his whole house with him, just in case of emergencies: radio, flares, water distillation kit, snake bite kit, splint & tourniquet, .44 magnum in case of bears & wolves, rain gear, chemical heating tubes in case of extreme cold, gas mask in case a volcano explodes nearby, etc. It's just the mathematics of likelihood: the longer or more severe the trip, the more likely something major can go wrong, so the more you'll need to carry. That's another issue.

In both cases there are commonsense solutions.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2019, 08:07:02 pm by AndyGoode »

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Re: Electronic Longevity
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2019, 02:16:53 am »
Redundancies  :D gotta love them! I assume it would be possible for tech companies to invest a little effort and make all these portable electronics a lot more reliable. Its not like most people buy the latest and greatest only when their old ones die.

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AndyGoode

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Re: Electronic Longevity
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2019, 09:31:06 pm »
I assume it would be possible for tech companies to invest a little effort and make all these portable electronics a lot more reliable.

It's not only possible, it's easy. I interviewed with one person who said he spent months of time learning about push buttons on electronic devices: there was so much to know in even that narrow field. In the end it came down to money (price). There were extremely reliable components but since the device itself wouldn't last that long, and since the customers wanted to pay as little as possible, and since the company wanted to make as much profit as possible (via less expensive components and more frequent repurchases to replace failed equipment), the longevity of the components was at least compromised, if not ignored.

Think about all the daily frustrations of technologies. Why, after 100 years of building car locks and other locks, would an angled keyhole into a lock not be absolutely standard by now, to ease insertion of the key? Why are non-deflatable tires, which now exist, not standard? Why are boats and other floating devices not all built with unsinkable bubble-encased floating structural components? Why are skyscrapers still built without safety nets around them to prevent suicide jumpers and emergency jumpers from jumping to their deaths (as when people jumped from the World Trade Center in the 9/11 fires)? Why can we not produce a quality backpack whose zipper doesn't fail long before the material wears out? Why are shark-proof wet suits not standard? It's as if we never learn from decades of making the same mistakes, or as if money is always more important than quality or safety, or as if nobody cares.

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« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 01:49:44 am by AndyGoode »

 


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