Consciousness & Self-awareness

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Consciousness & Self-awareness
« on: July 04, 2019, 09:57:28 AM »
That one caught my eye:
Quote from: Wikipedia
While consciousness is being aware of one's environment and body and lifestyle, self-awareness is the recognition of that awareness.

That's a very exciting challenge. First, you have consciousness, with external consciousness (being aware of where I end and where my environment begins) and internal consciousness (being aware of what's happening inside of my mind). Then you have self-awareness: being aware that I'm aware of...

Algorithmically, it implies having internal sensors to feel what's happening inside the program (internal sensors send data to program input), including sensors to feel this internal sensor loop. Trying to figure out a minimal algorithm drives me mad.

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Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2019, 12:04:32 PM »
One model does it all....it just talks about being aware that it's aware...stores the speech, etc....There's no need to add anything else but a GPT2-like network.

"Navigating somewhere, knowing the details, and that you know the details."
...This can be summarized to one function again as said...GPT-2 can plan/think (hence act them), know the plans, and say it knows that.

Really, you have to ask yourself what purpose is saying you know you know? It is just a tuple, a fact, and nothing more...R&D is very important however, to learn to plan & create new inventions and information, then use those tools/info.
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Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2019, 01:25:40 PM »
I don't believe in unicorns!
;)

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AndyGoode

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Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2019, 04:36:49 PM »
Caution: People really in the know in A.I. don't use the term "consciousness." It's basically a bad word in the field, used mainly by laymen, and nothing useful can come of discussing it. I recommend the more down-to-earth concept of "self-awareness" instead.

(p. 96)
   A large part of the problem with these scenarios is that there is no uni-
versal consensus as to the meaning of the word consciousness. Philosophers
and mathematicians have grappled with the word for centuries, and have
nothing to show for it.
Seventeenth-century thinker Gottfried Leibniz,
inventor of calculus, once wrote, "If you could blow the brain up to the size
of a mill and walk about inside, you would not find consciousness." Philos-
opher David Chalmers has even catalogued almost 20,000 papers written
on the subject, with no consensus whatsoever.
   Nowhere in science have so many devoted so much to create so little.
   Consciousness, unfortunately, is a buzzword that means different things
to different people. Sadly, there is no universally accepted definition of the
term.

Kaku, Michio. 2011. Physics of the Future: How Science Will Shape Human Destiny and Our Daily Lives By the Year 2100. New York: Doubleday.

(p. 57)
THE MYSTERY OF SELF-AWARENESS

If the space-time theory of consciousness is correct, then it also gives us a
rigorous definition of self-awareness. Instead of vague, circular references,
we should be able to give a definition that is testable and useful. We'll define
self-awareness as follows:


Self-awareness is creating a model of the world and simulating the
future in which you appear.

Kaku, Michio. 2014. The Future of the Mind: The Scientific Quest to Understand, Enhance, and Empower the Mind. New York: Doubleday.

Psychologists have developed many types of self-awareness, such as social self-awareness, but I believe the following article is particularly good. It discusses three types of self-awareness that can mostly be applied to A.I. in a technical way.

"Self-awareness in animals" (David DeGrazia)
https://philosophy.columbian.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs1676/f/image/degrazia_selfawarenessanimals.pdf


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Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2019, 05:51:45 PM »
Sorry I don't believe in "People really in the know" either ;D

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WriterOfMinds

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Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2019, 04:59:40 AM »
"Self-awareness" may have the advantage of being easy to define precisely, but I don't think Michio Kaku's definition of it adequately addresses reality.  It gives an incomplete account of human experience; it does not cover, or provide a means of testing for, what people are generally thinking of when they use the word "consciousness."  I can imagine an entity which is capable of simulating a future containing itself, while still having no first-person experience stream, i.e. still being a p-zombie.

The mere fact that a concept is so fundamental that it is difficult to describe in terms of other things, does not render that concept non-existent, meaningless, unimportant, or unworthy of discussion.  Furthermore, while the word "consciousness" is ambiguous in that it can refer to several different things, there are ways of clarifying. 

"Phenomenal consciousness" is the term I've seen used to refer to an organism's subjective experience of existence, or what it feels like to be in some state.  If you want to speak of being "conscious" of some piece of information in the sense of having it available for use in your high-level reasoning processes/being able to speak of it, you can use "access consciousness."  "Wakefulness" can substitute for "consciousness" when the intent is to distinguish being "conscious" from being asleep or "knocked out."

In any case, I'm an AI hobbyist and not beholden to anyone in either the academic or professional sphere, so I can use whatever words I want.

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Hopefully Something

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Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2019, 05:06:48 AM »
Yeah there are some distinctions to be made. For example when dreaming, i'd say that I am conscious but not self aware.

Quote
In any case, I'm an AI hobbyist and not beholden to anyone in either the academic or professional sphere, so I can use whatever words I want.

Academic fashion...   It'll  be numbers next. "We are aware of your important research... but we have called this board meeting to let you know that we feel the use of the Pi symbol has become somewhat passe... and as such require revisions before any more papers can be submitted."
 :idiot2:
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 05:43:15 AM by Hopefully Something »

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Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2019, 05:50:06 AM »
@Andey I agree.

"Self-awareness is creating a model of the world and simulating the future in which you appear."
Exactly, GPT-2.

"when dreaming, i'd say that I am conscious but not self aware."
When you dream, you trust crazy ideas with little reasoning. There's a lot of memories you don't think of, as if you are stupid-er. But that's the point of dreams, to be open-minded. So self-aware could be said to equate to 'using more facts and zooming in on them'. Something more logically useful, than puff.
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Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2019, 11:14:50 AM »
It's natural for humans to want or desire to think of themselves as not only something that should not be killed, but also to be self-aware and 'awake'. Because in theirs minds, being more than a machine is positive/magical/rare, and survival means they get rewards and future rewards. And being self-aware of their own self and therefore 'awake' is yet again a higher rating. It's a self-feeding 'glory'/'grace' of biblicalness.

Accept the truth...
Take red pill...
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 01:09:20 PM by LOCKSUIT »
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Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2019, 01:44:00 PM »
Hi,
If you want to dive in what could be consciousness you can read (for example) : Consciousness and the Brain: Deciphering How the Brain Codes Our Thoughts (Author : Stanislas Dehaene). You will have an access to what cognitive psychology know about this field and a lot of scientific references on this subject. If you speak French, your have access to online course for researchers on this subject at "College de France" (3 years course).
You can also read : What is consciousness, and could machines have it? By Stanislas Dehaene, Hakwan Lau, Sid Kouider (https://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/courses/readings/2017.dehaene.pdf)
Philippe.

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yotamarker

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Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2019, 12:03:05 AM »
here is how I see it

consciousness : all data goes through one central class
next the AGI can do things with said class like converse or negotiate between wants needs and requests

 self-awareness : the ability to program and recognize other AGIs
a skill like any other. like eating is a simple skill, like fighting, this is another skill.
sometimes humans cant breed for reasons like feminism, so they use this skill to breed but as AGIs.
which was, probably, our purpose to begin with.

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Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2019, 12:53:25 AM »
Quote
sometimes humans cant breed for reasons like feminism

CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP
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Re: Consciousness & Self-awareness
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2019, 01:20:10 AM »
It's neat how these things just work themselves out if you give people enough freedom. In China they had to make population laws, lots of extra effort.

 


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