What are you talking about?

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What are you talking about?
« on: August 14, 2019, 08:31:36 pm »
Language can be confusing and misleading. We use the same word “knowledge” to point out a wide variety of things to each other. This saves time and effort because we can usually figure out the identity of the concept in question from context. But there is always a cost to compression, things get muddled. When you are a one track mind thing, like a music disc, the consequences can be made to manifest in a place that doesn’t overly effect your functioning. But I suspect that GI’s like us are so darn multi-tracked that sooner or later you’ll find a thing to do that is compromised by the compression of something else. We can  conflate identical descriptor words with very un-identical descriptee realities. So when we say we are giving an AI knowledge, a dog knows, there is knowledge in a book, or a human knows, we are talking about many different phenomena. So when I think to myself, gee, I would like my AI to know what a tiger is, I scroll through my rolodex of things called knowledge and just pick the one that I can wrap my head around. But the various things that go by the same name don’t know they are supposed to be connected, therefore results for this technique may vary. So watch out for that, simply pick a phenomena, don’t trick yourself by picking a compressed descriptor. What’s your favorite phenomena with the title “knowledge” and what could be the components required to build it?

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AndyGoode

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Re: What are you talking about?
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2019, 12:14:22 am »
Before I even start to think about this, are you aware of the DIKW pyramid?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIKW_pyramid

If you want to get really technical, you should first probably try to make sure you are using the correct word for what you mean: data, information, knowledge, or wisdom. Then I'd recommend figuring out how to describe the differences between those four concepts, in a technical or mathematical way, which nobody has done yet. This might then get into the topic of epistemology...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology

...which is a topic on which philosophers like to write verbose books. I'd recommend starting from scratch, using a mathematical or computer science approach instead of the hand-waving philosophy that people have been using up to now.

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goaty

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Re: What are you talking about?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2019, 01:24:34 pm »
I agree,  you could even call an apple knowledge, because its a structure with seeds and a skin on the outside,  it is a form of data.   everything is.

Something im doing right now,  is using this fact that data is actually anything and everything,   and im mixing in my sensor variables and constants in with the truth tables that derive the output all together,   its all data after all.

Meta code, is code that represents code.     Data can be code,  code can be data.    Good topic.

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Art

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Re: What are you talking about?
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2019, 04:50:05 pm »
It's only data if one perceives or is able to perceive it as such. Otherwise, the apple is just food for thought.  O0
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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Re: What are you talking about?
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2019, 07:49:14 pm »
Good pyramid, but I don’t think math is very efficient for dealing with the universe, and I don’t think humans are very efficient at dealing with math. We need a new modus operandi for communication, investigation, and discovery. Some sort of language and descriptive system based on empiricism (as defined by the second article) can probably take us far, and it’ll be a comfy ride because it’ll be tailored to our functioning as sensory creatures. Something that would allow us to handle “data” in its raw form (eg apples), instead of always tedious translating it into our limited symbols. Too much thinking about symbols tends side track people (same with AI), as they debate which thing is the correct one to marry to an arbitrary descriptor instead of just investigating the things themselves. They argue about which definition is definitive.  It’s like trying to discover which species of flora is the definitive plant. Just investigate the plants! Then you will know what the words mean!

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AndyGoode

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Re: What are you talking about?
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2019, 02:21:39 am »
Good pyramid, but I don’t think math is very efficient for dealing with the universe, and I don’t think humans are very efficient at dealing with math. We need a new modus operandi for communication, investigation, and discovery. Some sort of language and descriptive system based on empiricism (as defined by the second article) can probably take us far, and it’ll be a comfy ride because it’ll be tailored to our functioning as sensory creatures. Something that would allow us to handle “data” in its raw form (eg apples), instead of always tedious translating it into our limited symbols. Too much thinking about symbols tends side track people (same with AI), as they debate which thing is the correct one to marry to an arbitrary descriptor instead of just investigating the things themselves. They argue about which definition is definitive.  It’s like trying to discover which species of flora is the definitive plant. Just investigate the plants! Then you will know what the words mean!

You're getting too much insight, so I will shut up now so that I don't risk having someone steal ideas I'm still trying to get published. [That was meant to be a major compliment, by the way.]

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Re: What are you talking about?
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2019, 03:07:55 am »
Well that made my day.  Thanks.

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AndyGoode

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Re: What are you talking about?
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2019, 03:27:28 am »
Otherwise, the apple is just food for thought.

I thought the apple was nature's toothbrush. But maybe I've been comparing apples and oranges.  :)

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goaty

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Re: What are you talking about?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2019, 04:25:19 am »
Language indeed has extreme flaws,  we've had to deal with them since the invention of it.   History is poorly kept twisted and forgotten.    Technology is poorly explained and its probably can be better to reinvent the wheel than bother looking at the overly complicated schematics for it.
But its better with, than without I guess, theres no alternative.

 


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