philosophical question/puzzle

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Re: philosophical question/puzzle
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2020, 03:40:43 AM »
There are many possibilities, but one thing seems certain. If we undergo a gradual transformation/replacement like what our cells do, then our experience is able to stay intact, hence my interest in artificial neurons.

It makes more sense if we think of ourselves as processes like waves, rather than states of shape and knowledge. If two substances are sufficiently interlocked, waves can transition from one medium to another without collapse.

I think it's the opposite of yolo, you can't stop living, yo-infinito. Since experience is the only experience which we can experience... If it's at all possible that some arrangement of matter creates "you", then that's where and when you'll find yourself the very next moment after death. The distance makes no difference, could be a billion years, could be in a billion bang-crunch cycles of the universe. If the idea of consciousness transfer to a digital body is at all possible, then experiential immortality is inescapable. Like narrow reincarnation.

I'd still prefer a long uninterrupted existence though. Otherwise I'd have to start all over again, likely in less fortunate circumstances, and all my friends, things, and memories are here. To that end, a gradual replacement of ourselves with longer lasting pieces seems like the way to go. We need a process gradual and non-invasive enough to keep the various rhythms constituting our life-wave intact, also keeping as many memories as possible.

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Re: philosophical question/puzzle
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2020, 03:47:15 AM »
You'll never prove that our bodies aren't just machines. No machine (ex. a phone, clock, speaker, table, rock, river) has a mechanism to make ghosts. We only think we are alive (and want to stay alive) because we can't think of anything else....the human body resists doing themselves in (you know what I mean) because of pain/thoughts associated to pain. You hate thinking about it. It's Darwin evolution. Your body is designed to survive longer than other mutants hopefully, so you won't take any other answer such as you are a hunk a junk and can be recycled. :-) Yet it has happened!!
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Re: philosophical question/puzzle
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2020, 04:59:32 AM »
A physical process, like the body which I am, can be alive, no ghost required. Understanding the physical processes doesn't disqualify the result. A car is both individual components and a functional system of components, ie; a car. A river is both bouncing water molecules & a river. A human is simultaneously chemicals/molecules and a life form.

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yotamarker

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Re: philosophical question/puzzle
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2020, 06:43:14 AM »
if you think about it from a 4th time dimention what would be the relation between the person at t vs t + moment ?
would it be a replica or a unique entity that can only exist in the person ?

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Re: philosophical question/puzzle
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2020, 08:04:58 AM »
I think you need Δt vs Δt + moment to compare people. Then person 2 would be person 1 + extra personality due to time 2-1.

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Re: philosophical question/puzzle
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2020, 03:58:34 PM »
A physical process, like the body which I am, can be alive, no ghost required. Understanding the physical processes doesn't disqualify the result. A car is both individual components and a functional system of components, ie; a car. A river is both bouncing water molecules & a river. A human is simultaneously chemicals/molecules and a life form.

You don't actually believe that, do you? All your actions can be understood and are built on by smaller 'transistors'. There's lower intelligences too, varying types of machines, rocks, etc. Just because you move, talk, think, eat, blink, love your face in the mirror, and hate death, doesn't mean you are alive. There's no magic/ghost, just your ability to fool others into not hurting you. Hmm, maybe that's what you're doing here. Yeah! I'm royal and alive too!, don't hurt me! Shame shame! o>o
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Re: philosophical question/puzzle
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2020, 07:24:11 PM »
You don't actually believe that, do you? All your actions can be understood and are built on by smaller 'transistors'. There's lower intelligences too, varying types of machines, rocks, etc. Just because you move, talk, think, eat, blink, love your face in the mirror, and hate death, doesn't mean you are alive. There's no magic/ghost, just your ability to fool others into not hurting you. Hmm, maybe that's what you're doing here. Yeah! I'm royal and alive too!, don't hurt me! Shame shame! o>o

With all due respect LOCKSUIT, and I do like you, that's the biggest load of crap I've heard today. But I haven't been up long.

That's why I like you guys. You're a brainy bunch and bastions of brilliance when it comes to AI, but at times seem critically lacking in knowing how the human mind works. I can't help but wonder how you can achieve one without knowing the other.

Behavioral Psychology is my thing. It can't solve all problems but can associate most things with behavior. I do try when able to add insight into the issue but don't know where to start with that.

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Re: philosophical question/puzzle
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2020, 08:45:21 PM »
I do believe I am a machine 100%. Looks like no one can match my performance. That's it, I really am the one.

I know I'm a machine.
I live it.
But I'll never truly feel it. So you got me there sort-of.
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Korrelan

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Re: philosophical question/puzzle
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2020, 09:30:01 PM »
@Lock

Define... machine.

 :)
It thunk... therefore it is!...    /    Project Page    /    KorrTecx Website

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WriterOfMinds

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Re: philosophical question/puzzle
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2020, 09:59:49 PM »
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Looks like no one can match my performance.

No one can match your disaster, you mean. I'm proud to report that I am not as willing to deny self-evident realities as you are. Nor am I corrupted enough to dismiss all that is best in human nature, leaving nothing behind but over-simplified survival instincts and physical pleasure drives.

I've said as much before, and I'll say it again: I don't want to see the AGI you'd build. It would be horrifying.

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Re: philosophical question/puzzle
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2020, 11:55:50 PM »
"Define... machine."
Machine: A bunch of stationary-particles moving around because photon-particles are moving the stationary-particles. No matter the scale/size, it's always just that. No matter if it is a toaster, a rock, a sperm cell, an egg cell, an uranium atom, it's all just some different machine compared to the rest. And I change every day, I'm a growth. Of course with the way we work we are having this discussion.
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Re: philosophical question/puzzle
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2020, 12:21:31 AM »
We are extremely predictable.

Water is probably less predictable if consider the atoms.
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Re: philosophical question/puzzle
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2020, 12:35:20 AM »
We can create tons of realistic simulations just using known laws. Unseen situations. And, apply them to real world. We know things are deterministic. The brain just simulates plans using that very predictable world data. Hehe.
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Re: philosophical question/puzzle
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2020, 04:44:43 AM »
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You don't actually believe that, do you?

No belief required, I'm describing a feeling. I feel a certain way, I call it feeling alive. The word "alive" here, is not meant to imply anything besides this feeling.   

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Re: philosophical question/puzzle
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2020, 05:27:24 AM »
What would a factory built machine say? May say just what you said. Carbon dioxide and bleach, taste, so good. It's, some sort of, feeling. Food is Good. Little do you know I can force a real/simulated robot to love accelerate speed, seeing bleach or door knobs, etc. When you say "I call it feeling alive." this is just what I explained using Darwin Evolution theory, through trillions of mutations you live longer by survival agenda, immortality. So you try to breed/eat more than you need to avoid having the swarm caught (hard to catch billions of small replicating nanobots). So more live than die but many end up totaling/die in the beginning fast. It's you, you just do this. We compress/extract data, everything we do is towards this  universal expansion/compression/immortality/ perhaps death. Every AI is all abut Compression, holly molly cow people! Look up the Hutter Prize and read it all and implement your own PPM. https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T65747f0622d5047f/understanding-compression
So in short, all Earth is a neural network compressing/extracting, initialized random chaos and cmes to equalibrium.

If I was a magical ghost that had no law, I'd give you a big hug. But I'm not, I'm a system, just like water in a river is happy to be flowing. Has no choice other than these physics. Yes, we aren't lucky to have the physics we have!!!!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 08:59:13 AM by LOCKSUIT »
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