[Freddy]

I've seen slaughter house videos, they are scary. Back when I was more politically concerned there was a band I was into called Consolidated, they would show slaughter house videos at their live gigs. Seen a few. They made you think but as time rolled on I realised there was little I could do to change the world.

I used to be vegetarian for about three years but I never found meals that satisfying or nourishing. I would get dizzy spells and not have much energy. I also had a lot of problems with depression that seemed to be related, but maybe not as I still get that. Anyway, sorry going off on one there. I don't eat red meat much, mainly chicken and fish.

I have a great deal of respect for people that choose not to eat animals, but I'm afraid I am not one of them, sorry. I'm a hypocrite because whilst I love animals I'm a sucker for a chicken burger.

[Data]

I wasn't having a go at you Freddy, just saying my bit.

One day maybe you will get the chance to try some of Mrs Data's gorgeous food and you might think again 

Peace 

[Freddy]

I knew you weren't having a go my friend. 

[ivan.moony]

If only all animals were free it would be a lot easier. We could classify our meals as a Mother Nature's will, hoping that everything is fine. At least our kids will have the fancy future, I'm sure of it. I've heard of Mc Donalds programs of having natural environments with hedge mazes and everything for their cows yet now.

[DemonRaven]

There are more humane ways to kill animals. I recently saw a news story on processing plants for chickens and i could not believe they were still killing them that way. When I was young i worked at one and it was disgusting the poor chickens were not killed first they just went right into the plucking machine still alive. I did not stay working there long. My mothers family was farmers my mom was not of course being married to a chemist but they were so i was familiar with how animals were killed. Their methods were humane it was over quickly so quick that they did not even have time to make noise about it.
We don't let murders suffer so we at least afford our food the same respect.

[Korrelan]

I don’t normally comment on subjects like this, but I thought I’d give my bobs worth.  Firstly let me say that I do care about animals… but a little perspective is needed.

All animals (humans included) are the sum of their experiences.  Colin Blakemore proved that even the vision system arises from the stimulus animals receive after birth.

WARNING: Don’t watch if you’re the sensitive type…

Basically cats which are reared in an environment with only horizontal lines to view for the first three months can only ever see horizontal lines.

All the cortices work like this.  If an animal has never known or experienced freedom etc, then how can it miss it?  We must be careful not to anthropomorphise and impose our own understanding of pain and suffering on the animals we cull.

It’s probably worse for a free range animal that has experienced sunshine, freedom and the companionship of its fellow species than it is for a battery hen when it’s time comes.

The human race would not be where it is today if we didn't eat meat. Vegetarianism is a modern indulgence people can pursue because we have the knowledge required to supplement our diets.  If you had tried it even a few hundred years ago… you would have died.

[ivan.moony]

I didn't watch that video...

Just a thought for all of you: there is a difference between a kill with a smile on your face or a murder with a tear in your eye.

[Korrelan]

I didn't expect the link to show the first frame from the video… soz for that.

[ranch vermin]

I didnt watch it either,  maybe me and Ivan have something in common.
There was this nasty video of this guy cyborgizing a real cockroach, its horrible, I dont think ai really needs it,  I wouldnt call it easy, but I dont think operating on live animals brains helps anything,  I think its just logic your born with and some hardware/software skill is all someone would need.

[Ultron]

This video is very interesting, as in - gave interesting results. I've always thought that we are not born with the ability to recognize some patterns and I guess we probably wouldn't know how to react to a say, ball propelled towards us - until we witness what it can do ( damage to another object, creature...).

[Freddy]

I watched it. I was glad the kitten had a normal life after acquainting itself with reality. Putting it in that box with the lines made me sad though I have to admit. There have been far worse things done to animals in the name of science and curiosity though.

[Korrelan]

ball propelled towards us - until we witness what it can do

Oh… this opens the whole can of worms… about free will.

I’m going to cause an argument by saying… the first time we experience a situation, we can’t exercise free will.  Also, I don’t think there is such a thing as memories… only correct predictions.

Hear me out…

We don’t actually live in the moment; if we did we would be constantly lagging behind reality.  Our brain forms predictions using our internal virtual model of the world as we think it works.

If we are forming predictions they must be based on previous knowledge and experience.  You must have the experience/ patterns in place to recognize the current experience in the first place.

So if a situation arises that we have no previous experience of we can’t form a prediction/ choice of predictions based on free will… we have no choices to choose from.

If you are in a bank and someone shouts… FREEZE… you do.  The only way to override this is through training and experiencing all the possible combinations likely in life.  Hence army and police training!  Also causes rabbits and deer to stop in your headlights etc… no previous experience to form a prediction/ reaction too.

Therefore if memories do exist they do so only as proven predictions, and there is no such thing as free will, in the first instance of an experience.

[Freddy]

Yup, just watch babies. They don't react to much at first. They just sit or lay there wondering about things blissfully unaware of the dangers in the world. Which is why we have to look after them.

That moment of not knowing what to do in some new situation must be familiar to everyone. I'd say we are not entirely helpless though, but I agree that past experience is probably the key to working out what to do next. Comparison and assessment before taking action - which could take time.

What about instinct though ?

[Art]

It does seem that instinct mostly applies to animals more than people.

A Salmon knows to spawn upstream, bees know how to work and live in a colony although they are highly intelligent in the insect world, as are ants.

Why do some birds fly south for the winter and how do they know when to return in the spring?

Why does a squirrel bury nuts (although it can only remember where a small percentage are hidden)?

Some people might say they distrust an individual because there's just "something" about him / her that they can't put their finger on...instinct.

Are humans or animals perhaps reading or interpreting other signs or signals then using an internal prediction of outcome within our brains to form a thought called an instinct?

An instinct is a behavior or feeling that is acted upon and is inborn in an animal or maybe a person, although I still contend that animal instinct far outweighs human instinct.

[Korrelan]

An instinct is a predisposition to a particular reflex action or trait that has been passed down in the connectome wiring/ DNA of an animal that serves survival of the fittest.

All the humans that don’t raise their heads when they feel water on their face… are dead. lol

This of course is the theory behind use of Genetic Algorithms, were random mutation is tested for fitness and the best are combined.