[lordjakian]

Ok, here you are, you cliked here.

AI means Artificial Intelligence.

This is english language.  Artificial means man made, or not naturally made.  And Intelligent..... that is talked about in many languages. 

Which is true?  Who knows?  Are you an expert in all language?  An expert in all usage of a term?  PROBALY NOT.

Regardless of education, regardless of culture and language, a respectable version of "AI" has not been brought that answers everything.

What ideas can you bring, that you think may be popular or not?

[lordjakian]

P.S.  I've got LOTS of IDEAS.   I want to know what direction most of you want the ideas to be coming from, and why.

[lrh9]

Hey. Welcome to aidreams. I'm glad you decided to make an account here. Do you remember me from http://www.ai-forum.org/?

I can vouch for lordjakian. He's one of the more involved and level headed posters at http://www.ai-forum.org/. He'll fit right in here.

I hope you'll take the time to look up some of my posts here and at http://www.ai-forum.org/, regardless of what you think of them.

Welcome, and good luck!

[Freddy]

Thanks LRH, that's good to hear

Welcome aboard lordjakian

[TrueAndroids]

Ok, here you are, you cliked here.

AI means Artificial Intelligence.

This is english language.  Artificial means man made, or not naturally made.  And Intelligent..... that is talked about in many languages.  

Which is true?  Who knows?  Are you an expert in all language?  An expert in all usage of a term?  PROBALY NOT.

Regardless of education, regardless of culture and language, a respectable version of "AI" has not been brought that answers everything.

What ideas can you bring, that you think may be popular or not?

Greetings. I'll have a go at it. (Just some personal, meandering thoughts.)

Artificial life - study of machine biology (biologically inspired mechanical life systems)

Artificial intelligence - study of machine psychology.

Artificial consciousness - study of machine mental faculties of perception, feeling, and thinking.

[lordjakian]

LordJakian here.

First off, lets all give a silent cry towards my last computer that just died hours after running an anti virus program.  Kinda Ironic, but sad all the same to come back from work to see that.

<silence.....gets up to fill rum & coke, sits back down>
<grumble, grumble, pissed-offness>

Guess I'll look at it in the morning and fool around to create a new frankenstein, but till then I can still use my old,  yellow computer(It was white originally, gotta love how the old computer cases turn yellow)  Worst case scenario, I'll be playing Doom and Starcraft for awhile.

<lights cig>

God fucking dammit.

Rant over......I'm actually very honored by lrh9 saying I was level headed.   Don't feel that way right now, but I do try to ask more questions then give answers.

TrueAndroid, I am aiming at you.

[lordjakian]

Artificial life - study of machine biology (biologically inspired mechanical life systems)

Problem is this.  First that you say it is a study.  -ology at the end of an american english word means study of. 

But Fine. Nevermind that!  Lets say This is your's and one else's definition of Artificial Life.  Then I would say that MY problem is this.  I like the idea of a study of biologically inspired mechanical systems.  But I see adding the word "life" to that is akin to adding Garnish to a full sized meal.

Question. What are you adding to the definition by adding "life" to it?

Artificial intelligence - study of machine psychology. Sorted into artificial consciousness and artificial mental constructs (machine self, machine autonomy, machine self-awareness, etc.)

Two part problem.  The easy one one is the idea of a artificial mental construct.  Mental Activity requires a mind, and whether the mind is artificial or not, i would see an artificial mental construct as being a construct that the mind did not itself create.  This is a "FUN" topic that could cross lines.

Artificial Conciousness- study of machine mental faculties of perception, feeling, and thinking.  Problem is this.  A machine can show faculties of perception without a mind.  Can show faculties of thinking without a mind.  Can show, to a limited extent given the right hardware, show feeling without a mind.

Question.  What differs a "Mechanical Mind" made of levers, pulleys, switches from an idea of a "Mental Mind"?

Quote of the Day
"Vista, the only operating system inherently designed to NOT work with the games you play today."

[TrueAndroids]

Yea I see what you mean. We say "artificial flower" but is it REALLY a flower? No, of course not.

Same with artificial life and artificial mind.

Maybe you can come up with better names for it all. It's unfortunately beyond me.

[lrh9]

LordJakian here.

First off, lets all give a silent cry towards my last computer that just died hours after running an anti virus program.  Kinda Ironic, but sad all the same to come back from work to see that.

<silence.....gets up to fill rum & coke, sits back down>
<grumble, grumble, pissed-offness>

God fucking dammit.

Rant over......I'm actually very honored by lrh9 saying I was level headed.   Don't feel that way right now, but I do try to ask more questions then give answers.

No worries. My computer is my most precious possession. If it died I'd be devastated.

[Bragi]

Yea I see what you mean. We say "artificial flower" but is it REALLY a flower? No, of course not.

As my fellow country man once famously painted:

Ceci n'est pas une pipe

[lordjakian]

First, I want to apoligize for any who took offense to the open swearing I did in a previous post.  I will try my hardest to continue to curse at only terrible situations or ideals, and never at individuals.  I will also make the most true effort to cloak my curses furthermore in clever internationally politically correct wording.

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

The Good.  Only my NEW 500 GB drive died;  I still have my PC, and my OLD 120 GB drive
The Bad.  My new stuff, and Vista was on my 500 GB drive.
The Ugly.  My Windows XP CD was nowhere to be found.

Back to the story...
First, I want to apoligize for any who took offense to the open swearing I did in a previous post.  I will try my hardest to continue to curse at only terrible situations or ideals, and never at individuals.  I will also make the most true effort to cloak my curses furthermore in clever internationally politically correct wording.

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

The Good.  Only my NEW 500 GB drive died;  I still have my PC, and my OLD 120 GB drive
The Bad.  My new stuff, and Vista was on my 500 GB drive.
The Ugly.  My Windows XP CD was nowhere to be found.

Back to the story...-->ArtificialAndroid Reply---->We say "artificial flower" but is it REALLY a flower? No, of course not.
Same with artificial life and artificial mind.   Maybe you can come up with better names......."

AI, the namings of an idea is just as important then then the doings of the idea.

[TrueAndroids]

Artificial life - study of machine biology (biologically inspired mechanical life systems)

Problem is this.  First that you say it is a study.  -ology at the end of an american english word means study of.  

But Fine. Nevermind that!  Lets say This is your's and one else's definition of Artificial Life.  Then I would say that MY problem is this. I like the idea of a study of biologically inspired mechanical systems.  But I see adding the word "life" to that is akin to adding Garnish to a full sized meal.

Question. What are you adding to the definition by adding "life" to it?

Artificial intelligence - study of machine psychology. Sorted into artificial consciousness and artificial mental constructs (machine self, machine autonomy, machine self-awareness, etc.)

Two part problem.  The easy one one is the idea of a artificial mental construct.  Mental Activity requires a mind, and whether the mind is artificial or not, i would see an artificial mental construct as being a construct that the mind did not itself create.  This is a "FUN" topic that could cross lines.

Artificial Conciousness- study of machine mental faculties of perception, feeling, and thinking.  Problem is this.  A machine can show faculties of perception without a mind.  Can show faculties of thinking without a mind.  Can show, to a limited extent given the right hardware, show feeling without a mind.

Question.  What differs a "Mechanical Mind" made of levers, pulleys, switches from an idea of a "Mental Mind"?

Quote of the Day
"Vista, the only operating system inherently designed to NOT work with the games you play today."

Hi, I agree with you on the importance of naming things. I'm just one small player in an international field of study/engineering that has taken off and is here to stay. There are thousands working on this and as I showed in my thread, someone will soon invent "mechanical access consciousness" whether I do or not. And it may as well be me. But I can't change the field. Just look at this long list of Online papers on artificial/real consciousness:  http://consc.net/online/1.2d  

And I do understand the issues you are speaking to. In my demo I sum up my conclusions as follows:

"Watch any 3 year old. Their smooth symphony of sensors, self, consciousness, and actuators, always leaves me with the conclusion that it is oddly elegant to the extreme."

So I am saying that I agree with the idea of "An artificial flower is not a real flower." And I say this. And actually it is present in the definition of "artificial". In the same way, artificial life is not real life, artificial mind is not a real mind etc. And yes, an artificial human is not a real human. Machinery is machinery, a "biologically inspired mechanical system" at best as you say. This is also what I believe and so I don't therefore believe in robot rights or any of that.

You do present definitions in the above quote, that I (and the field in general I think) can agree with. Maybe the idea of putting "study" in the definitions was wrong; really I'm just a coder who studied philosophy, not really a formal AI expert. So I could easily be wrong. Actually it's probably better. So using your suggestions we get:

artificial life - biologically inspired mechanical systems - sensory motor systems with semantic reasoners, or chatbots with semantic reasoners
artificial intelligence - psychology inspired mechanical systems
artificial consciousness - human consciousness inspired mechanical systems

[lordjakian]

Ok, I'm back.  Here is for my own super swirl on the subject.

Defining life.  No matter the definition, many people disagree with it.  Adding "artificial" makes one more thing for people to disagree on.  Here is the swirl i made for "AI".

Define life but you take out the biological parts.  Funny, isn't it?

Most life has an anchor in being a cell with proteins and nucleic acids, with everything building off that.  Scientists who theorize possible life elsewhere in the universe view that there may be life that may use another kind of basis.  My definition isn't ready to be argued on yet, but that kind of thinking as a starting point is a fun way to go about it.  I hate using words like entropy so I gotta figure out a way so I can break it all down to a sixth grade level.  I have tomorrow off so maybe then.

What that has to do with AI is this.  It puts extraterrestrial life, earth life, and artificial life on a common platform from which to diverge and become more specific depending on environment.

I think your ideas on "rights" are a bit naive, but I don't like that quagmire, and plus, you made another thread for it.  So thank you, we skip it.

Figuring out consciousness, haha, well, that takes some time..  I haven't yet figured out a way to express it to my own satisfactory version that is dumbed down to a sixth grade level.  That said, it is far easier to attack ideas that you don't agree with then it is to create an idea of your own that you do agree with.

  I wrote a bit, and then it hit me that what I was writing sounded very similar to a short poem/story.  So I erased what I wrote, and will instead say this.  Consciousness, and listening to very learned people go on about it, has lead me to the conclusion that they mostly sound like this story.  It is EXTREMELY appropriate, and old fables are fun.

http://www.wordinfo.info/words/index/info/view_unit/1/?letter=B&spage=3

P.S.  Freemind is a free program and a great way to organize, polarize, and shift though random thoughts, a big step up from skimming through a notepad file.

[lrh9]

Were you intending to reply at

 http://aidreams.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=be2e9639ea197598386e2dc176422a81&topic=3579.msg15127

?