lrh9, new user.

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lrh9

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lrh9, new user.
« on: August 02, 2009, 07:30:39 pm »
Hello. I've been an amateur a.i. researcher for a half a year now and I've had personal computing and electronics experience for nine years. I post at ai-forum.org under the same user name. My favored area of a.i. research is the child machine hypothesis. As I'm sure many of you know, Alan Turing hypothesized that the first a.i. would not be instantaneously intelligent, but would have to learn much like human children do.

My most recent and only project related to a.i. at the moment is an attempt to build a general purpose desktop strong a.i. program. After a period of forming my conceptual model of intelligence, and working with a language that would not allow me to quickly begin building the program, I believe I've finally found a good language to begin building the program with. I'm working with AutoHotkey, a scripting language capable of performing high level Windows actions.

Very early I realized that the a.i. to be truly effective would need to be able to sense and interact with its environment well. Other languages can provide this functionality, but require a large amount of programming and work with the Windows API. AutoHotkey can reduce this functionality to one line of code. It can simulate user input, has disk i/o, gui functionality, internet access capabilities, direct memory access, system messaging, dll calls, and even a basic image recognition function. Upon seeing the abilities of this language, I instantly thought that this would be exactly the language I needed to build an a.i.

To make things even better for me, AutoHotkey is a dynamic language. Dynamic function calls, typeless variables, variable parameters, and the ability to directly use the contents of a variable as a variable itself all make AutoHotkey a flexible language. It seems ideal for emulating the mind, which is dynamic rather than static.

At the moment my program revolves around four major components.

1) The a.i. agent itself. This portion of the program is intended to emulate human cognitive abilities as closely as possible. It's scope is restricted to performing actions that the human brain does. It operates on a message system that treats messages much as the brain treats electrical impulses. It can send messages to other modules to perform actions, receive messages from sensor programs/apparatus, and transmit messages to and from thought processes.

2) The a.i. manager system. Very quickly I realized that a user might want to have multiple a.i.'s running at once. He or she might also want each one to be uniquely identifiable so each one can be responsible for its own individual task. I couldn't know in advance how many a.i.'s each user would want, and it would be inconvenient for them to create each one themselves. So a dynamic system is needed. The basic function of this system is to assign a unique identifier to an a.i. when one is started, and ensure that any associated operations go to only that a.i. This system might have additional functionality later on such as being the control interface between the a.i. system and the user and providing an interface between the security system and the a.i.

3) Environment interface modules. This system is the vehicle by which the a.i. interacts with the user. Obtains data from the computing environment, and interacts with the computing environment. The major benefits -but not the only benefits - of this organization is that it allows multiple input/output operations to work in parallel (simulated in a single processor(core) environment or actual in a multiple processor environment), and it closely emulates human environmental action (in which signals come in and/or go out via the central nervous system, optic nerve, and auditory nerve).

4) Security module. Responsible for ensuring that an a.i. does not go rogue and protecting the user, computer, and other systems from harm from an a.i. if it does go rogue. I haven't considered/conceptualized this module as much as the others, because let's face it, the other modules are more exciting. However, this will be an essential system before the a.i. can be used with high level instructions and released to the general public. Some systems I've considered are file and process protection options for the user to block a.i. access, a.i. program reprogramming/tampering protection to prevent the a.i./malicious users from modifying the security code, and a.i. system dependency, by which the security system computes a unique value based upon computer settings and if the internal setting doesn't match the actual setting, it terminates the a.i. (This would prevent the silent spread of the a.i. A user would have to willingly install it or update it if components changed.)

I really don't know if it will work or not, but I think it's worth trying. I'm just here looking for a place to have good discussions about a.i. and maybe get some help and give some help. So thanks for reading if you did or OK if tl;dr. Hope I get a good welcome!  :)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2009, 10:22:26 pm by lrh9 »

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Freddy

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Re: lrh9, new user.
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2009, 09:56:19 pm »
Getting late here at the moment, so I will come back and read this.  Just wanted to say welcome to the forum :)

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Art

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Re: lrh9, new user.
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2009, 11:34:17 pm »
Hey guys...Fresh blood!!!

Er...I mean...Welcome to our humble but enlightened discussion forum!!

Nice intro, BTW, and sounds like you have formulated quite a few key ideas
with which to build upon.

Nice to have you here!!
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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lrh9

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Re: lrh9, new user.
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2009, 04:43:50 am »
Getting late here at the moment, so I will come back and read this.  Just wanted to say welcome to the forum :)

Any questions or comments? Any thing you want to talk about?

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lrh9

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Re: lrh9, new user.
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2009, 04:51:44 am »
Welcome to our humble but enlightened discussion forum!!

Nice intro, BTW, and sounds like you have formulated quite a few key ideas
with which to build upon.

Nice to have you here!!

Thanks. If you feel there are ways in which to build upon this, I'd very much welcome your input. I was under the impression that this model was the simplest that it could possibly be without missing any essential components. Is there something else that is needed? I know there are a lot of things out there that would expedite the a.i.'s learning process, but even though they help, they aren't necessary, and would indeed be a hindrance in this experiment because if there is something you, I, and another technique can do that this program could not do no matter how I attempt to work with it, then something key is missing. Having the ability to accomplish complex tasks, learn, and change using the most simple and most concise set of subsystems is key I believe.

I know that when I finish the program, it won't be enough to do anything useful. I will have to learn how to be a teacher/parent/mentor and take some time to try to "get it to become whatever it is able to be".

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Re: lrh9, new user.
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2009, 12:15:09 pm »
Any questions or comments? Any thing you want to talk about?

Well I think you are going in the right direction by making it modular.  If you do it that way then it's a lot easier to work on individual modules then it is to alter just one complex program.  It makes me think the best kind of language would be one of the Object Oriented languages like C++ for example or perhaps the one you are contemplating. Maybe even a combination of languages chosen for their own qualities.

Generally I have thought in the past that it would be good to have a 'goal oriented' AI - by which I mean it isn't simply a black box where you put something in one end and get something out of the other.  If this AI had goals then it would have something like a life force, it would seek things out and hopefully develop.  Goals can be simple things like to learn what colour something is to more complex things that could involve on-line research.  In regard to on-line resources I think a nice general purpose AI would benefit from on-line capabilities - after all this is a HUGE resource and it seems a shame not to tap into it.

But what is 'general purpose' exactly ?  You could spend a lifetime making a general purpose AI.  Sometimes maybe we need to think smaller and only program something that is good at a certain task.  Again this could be considered modular - if we had some kind of shared protocol, many people could be working on separate modules and at some point they could interact and then maybe we would be closer to a general AI.

I think the term 'general AI' is open to interpretation, what is general ?

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lrh9

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Re: lrh9, new user.
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2009, 01:03:58 pm »
I've always defined general purpose strong a.i. as an a.i. capable of performing at least any task a human is able to perform.

As for goals, I do think a.i. cannot be useful or function without goals. However, I don't think it should have it's own primary goals (i.e. seek out power source, replicate, etc.). That seems a sure fire way to create a rogue a.i. I think a.i. primary goals should come from its users, but it should have the ability to set it's own sub-goals that of course can be overridden.

And this isn't a massive program attempting to do everything. It is intended to be relatively small and simple. The one task it is intended to do very well is learn.

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Art

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Re: lrh9, new user.
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2009, 03:05:21 pm »
There is a fine line between robotics and AI. While a robot cannot perform or carry out physical tasks without some rudimentary form of AI, an AI can certainly exist without having the body of or being a robot.

For an AI to do all things human I hope you were referring to the mentai aspect instead of the physical one, yet I noticed that you mentioned seek its own power source, etc. This might imply that you are thinking in terms of robotics.

Forget the movie AI for we need to develop and perfect the modular AI brain. Perhaps a different module or "compartment" much like we all have. Math, music, emotions, memory, etc.

Just some thoughts....
« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 10:08:14 pm by Art »
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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lrh9

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Re: lrh9, new user.
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2009, 05:55:06 pm »
There is a fine line between robotics and AI. While a robot cannot perform or carry out physical tasks without some fudimentary form of AI an AI can certainly exist without having the body of or being a robot.

For an AI to do all things human I hope you were referring to the mentai aspect instead of the physical one, yet I noticed that you mentioned seek its own power source, etc. This might imply that you are thinking in terms of robotics.

Forget the movie AI for we need to develop and perfect the modular AI brain. Perhaps a different module or "compartment" much like we all have. Math, music, emotions, memory, etc.

Just some thoughts....

I guess you skimmed my first post instead of actually reading it.

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Art

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Re: lrh9, new user.
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2009, 10:17:51 pm »
Please re-read my latest posting then look at your provious posting. The inference was made specifically toward your August 8th posting.

We are all friends here.

In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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lrh9

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Re: lrh9, new user.
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2009, 10:41:09 pm »
Not trying to be unfriendly. Sometimes I have the bad habit of assuming that just because I know what I'm talking about everyone else does too. I was intending to build an a.i. program based upon a conceptual model of human cognition, which I think can be interfaced with a hardware implementation of human physical abilities. However, I didn't talk about that, did I? Nope. Sorry about that.  :-[

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Bragi

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Re: lrh9, new user.
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2009, 04:42:20 pm »
Quote
As for goals, I do think a.i. cannot be useful or function without goals.
I'm affraid I must disagree on this point.  Altough, possible, it's not required.  You can have simple responsive systems, that only react to an input. How they react is completely open: it depends on previously recorded links/data.

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lrh9

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Re: lrh9, new user.
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2009, 05:51:45 pm »
Quote
As for goals, I do think a.i. cannot be useful or function without goals.
I'm affraid I must disagree on this point.  Altough, possible, it's not required.  You can have simple responsive systems, that only react to an input. How they react is completely open: it depends on previously recorded links/data.

I meant the word "goals" loosely, covering a broad range of intended results including preprogrammed or programmed responses.

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Bragi

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Re: lrh9, new user.
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2009, 06:39:55 pm »
Ah, I see. Predefined reactions to input. The question perhaps than becomes, how broad or how narrow do they need to be. For instance, you could create a system that responds to the specific words 'your name is' x where x is a variable, and have it respond to that specific statement type, or you could make more and more words variable, or even the structure of the sentence could be variable.
The next question is probably how many reaction do you have to  pre define before you have a system capable of creating it's own reactions.

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lrh9

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Re: lrh9, new user.
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2009, 06:56:17 pm »
In software, a simple system would generate random code and execute it.

 


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