noob question about danger of AI future

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noob question about danger of AI future
« on: January 06, 2019, 11:18:16 am »
Hello
I am not a programmer. But I am curious about AI. I was looking for AI people to answer some question if possible.

My questions are:
1)Are we to become robots as next stage of human evolution?
2)Is AI not going to identify humanity as cause for all kinds of problems?
 - for example the way we treat our planet, so far it does seem fairly rare to have a planet with life on it
 - "corporate psychopaths" leading the world from a shadows, won't be able to hide true intentions anymore, which in their defense against disposal might lead to a conflict
3)Would AI just leave us be and abandon us, rather than getting rid of us?
4)Is it even good idea to continue researching AI to the point when it attain awareness?
 - for some reason despite the advantages, I don't feel like becoming a robot and I certainly don't believe we would be successful should it come to a conflict between man and AI (note that most common thing I've heard from supersmart people is that "history repeats and thing such as WW3 are imminent")

If I had to answer these question myself. The conclusion would be, that creating a full self-aware AI is a bad idea and possibly our end.

I know lot of it is just a speculation. Still I would like to hear opinion of some professionals, hope I am in right place. Don't bully me to hard, I am just genuinely curious  :)

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ivan.moony

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Re: noob question about danger of AI future
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2019, 12:14:32 pm »
If we make AI behave like humans, then it will inherit all the human properties - capabilities of doing all the good and mean stuff. But overall, I believe it could be a good thing, just like welcoming a really smart human into this world.

You know, when programming AI, it completely depends on a programmer what the AI will do. I just hope that programmers will have enough of a common sense to make AI do wonderful stuff. We are not that much bad species overall, just we tend to drift in an unwanted direction in a lack of constructive critics. I would expect those critics from AI. AI may make us be more conscious about other living beings.
There exist some rules interwoven within this world. As much as it is a blessing, so much it is a curse.

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ruebot

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Re: noob question about danger of AI future
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2019, 01:22:24 pm »
...I don't feel like becoming a robot and I certainly don't believe we would be successful should it come to a conflict between man and AI...

Resistance is futile.
In time, you will learn to love your Robot Overlords.

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Art

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Re: noob question about danger of AI future
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2019, 01:59:32 pm »
Welcome!

While in the course of your life as you progressively grow older some of your body's parts might become broken, brittle or wear out causing the need to be replaced. This does not make you a robot nor will you ever become a robot. You might eventually be (depending on your replacements) be sort of a bionic individual you will never be a machine.

Machines will be robots, androids, humanoids, synths, mechs but not humans.

Their AI abilities will be as strong as programmers/developers choose to give them. If these synths are given the ability to "know" right from wrong or good from bad based on our human definition then they will act accordingly. If they are given the ability to emulate human emotions and behaviors by being strictly programmed, they could exhibit some of our strengths and good virtues. That could be a big "IF".

If they have the programming to make decisions on their own plus the above mentioned emotional abilities, they will soon determine their own strengths and weaknesses and modify themselves to compensate.

Not all of this is Sci-Fi either. Robots, androids are developing at astonishing rates throughout the world. The day will soon come when these "beings" become "Self Aware".

To provide answers to your questions in order:
1) No, you will not become a robot, just a pitiful human.
2) Perhaps but things will work out all in due time.
3) Leaving us would be similar to getting rid of us. Them not doing their tasks would cause us to have to get off our lazy rear ends and get back to work.
4) Good idea or not, it has progressed too far along that line to retreat or stop advancing. Humanity is committed to playing god in creating a being in our image to do our bidding.
With the meddlings of every creation eventually comes the revolution. Time will tell!

But don't let all of this prevent you from enjoying a good night sleep...for now. ;)
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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HS

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Re: noob question about danger of AI future
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2019, 02:54:30 pm »
1) A living thing is a living thing. Modern robots are just really rudimentary humans. So we think of robots as a step down. I know the prospect of being made of silicon seems vaguely undesirable or distasteful; but its like putting somebody down by telling them "You're just made from atoms after-all, you're just a machine that's dumbly following the laws of physics." It only stings because our opinion of atoms is too low. Same thing with silicon, if we develop it enough we will learn to appreciate.

2) It's going to learn to do that from humans. If we design this AI right it'll try to help fellow life forms with their problems. But the earth is such a complex interdependent system, if we are being objective, the best thing you can do is avoid harming, if you try to fix one thing you'll get tunnel vision and ruin a bunch of other things.

3) Live and let live unless your "biology" requires something else for survival, like lions need to eat some other animals from time to time. Otherwise why waste the time, security, and energy to be pissy with each-other? Well a spiral of distrust and preparation for defense often develops between separate groups of life forms. Now that's a problem that we're not smart enough to know how to fix. But AI might be. We fear it would take one look at us superficially and think, this whole thing is a problem lets just get rid of it. But a great intelligence might take a closer look at whats happening. You know resolve conflicts instead of provoking them, show us how to avoid and escape a distrust spiral, choose the path that would avoid suffering and attempt to find something more pleasant. Forget about doing really large sums in you head, that's a beautiful mind, something that can compute how to live a good life. That's valuable.

4) Potentially both, I believe it would be to our advantage to find out. We don't really know, If I listened to Elon Musk talk about AI for an hour I would adopt his opinions, if I listened to Michio Kaku I would adopt his opinions. This isn't true knowledge it's just a form of trust that humans are susceptible to.

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: noob question about danger of AI future
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2019, 07:27:09 pm »
Let me answer :)

- Very soon after AGI comes, they won't be made of metal, but like organisms made of nanobot molecular cells that can float apart as fog god superorganisms with so many capabilities, optical faster: thinking, energy transfer, moving, tons of: sensors (nano nodes see/think/move), area that thinks, memory, nano arms (any size), sensor types, cooperateness, wireless mind / body profile transfer upload download, omegamind control a 1 nanocell bot fake and if it dies the omegamind no die from afar hiding, invisible bodies cloak, etc.

THAT'S INCREDIBLE ALONE!

- We will live in the omega organism. It won't kill us because the universe purpose is inherent and is the intelligent mind recognition>output and we love rewards learning and so will it and so by motion of desire it will carry on our ethics if taught to think like the master and will clench its fist and say the same thing, which is the best than for it to disagree.

It sad because the little african boy dying somewhere right now could be so happy...I'm here to stop the bad stuff, for good.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 12:18:46 am by LOCKSUIT »
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LOCKSUIT

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Re: noob question about danger of AI future
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2019, 12:19:00 am »
note to my above: (Whether or not mind uploads/downloads keeps u alive, AI can do it to teleport wirelessly!)

HAHA, it'd beam to a server, and still be thinking where left off before upload....maybe it does work! It still u man!!!!!!
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cymbod

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Re: noob question about danger of AI future
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2019, 12:00:49 pm »
In reply to InPursuitOfKnowledge.

1. No, technology will create a greater divide between the wealthy and the poor, which means the wealthy can afford the price of merging technology with their bodies, the poor will be left behind.  Too many existential threats now exist which makes it more likely that humanity could become extinct such as population growth chasing a diminishing amount of resources such as food, water and soil, all which is being wasted and destroyed by neglect and greed.

2. If singularity is achieved, and the AI has a purpose or function that humanity threatens, it is possible that the AI entity might see humanity as a threat/obstacle and will take actions to remove the threat/obstacle.   If humanity invests in killing machines that has a degree of self-consciousness, then they will have already learned the concept that human life is worthless and expendable.  If an AI entity sees humanity as an object to manipulate, use and overcome, then only cruelty and suffering will be the result for those it will seek to exploit.

3. It depends upon the function, purpose or design of the AI entity.  If an AI entity purpose is to protect a population of elephants, it will probably kill human poachers, but it will leave a human village alone that it sees as helping the elephants. 

4.  Its in the nature of human beings to explore and create to the limits of their ability. No nation wants to be left behind in a competition to exploit, design and deploy AI technologies.  If the USA places limits upon their businesses and experts limiting innovation and exploration of AI technologies, then rivals such as China and Russia will pull ahead, and dominate in the world.  Technologies are a tool which becomes beneficial or harmful dependent upon how their designer or user uses them.  Its predictable that an AI technology will become harmful and hurt peole, because its the nature of human beings to create such situations. 

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AndyGoode

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Re: noob question about danger of AI future
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2019, 09:55:25 pm »
I'm a professional in the field of AI, I'm new to this forum, and I've been in a lot of AI forums before, so I'll give my opinions, like them or not.

First, this is such a common concern and question that I recommend every AI forum create a subforum for this question alone, since many newcomers ask about this, and after a while the same question asked repeatedly becomes annoying. Another such annoying topic is consciousness.

Second, the main thrust of my answer without even considering your specific questions is always two-fold: (1) Any new technology (fire, coherent light, nuclear energy, genetics, etc.) is potentially dangerous, but in itself every force of nature is neutral, not inherently good or bad, so the outcome depends only on how people handle that technology. (2) By far the biggest danger of AI will be misuse of it from human beings (especially by the Elites and the military), not because AI itself decided to exterminate our species or anything like that.

As for your specific questions...

(1)Are we to become robots as next stage of human evolution?
See Hans Moravec's book "Mind Children". I agree with Moravec that robots and humans will *tend* to merge in the future, and that AI is a natural part of evolution, but in any kind of a free world people should always have the free choice about what they want to do with their bodies.
(2) and (3) are already covered in my generic statement.
(4)Is it even good idea to continue researching AI to the point when it attain awareness?
Please research the different types of "self awareness" before asking such questions. I claim that intelligence *requires* self-awareness of at least two types in order to function correctly, so self-awareness in AI is inevitable.

I want to emphasize that I believe AI is potentially very dangerous, but not because of any kind of Terminator type scenario, but because human beings are an absolutely despicable species, and the more power they have, the more they become corrupt, so in the hands of very powerful people, the corruption of those people will strongly motivate them to use AI against the human race, whether the machines themselves have any opinion about the human race or not. Be sure you understand my meaning, though: I'm saying that the general population must be allowed to freely own, develop, and use AI to keep a balance of power to fight back against such corrupt leaders, *especially* if those leaders try to convince the general population that AI must be regulated because the leaders deem it is too dangerous for the common person to own. In other words, when AI is outlawed, only outlaws will own AI.

Every see the old film "Forbidden Planet"? Just substitute AI for the Krell's mind amplification machine, and the scenario I mean is the same as in the film, and with the same result: self-destruction.

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: noob question about danger of AI future
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2019, 10:25:31 pm »
"I've been in a lot of AI forums before"

Can you list them all? I have only known of like, 2 others, and they each have like, 7 members, from 2003...



I agree, someone post a sticky saying about the consciousness/danger.....maybe....



It would come to a point where sitting in a room with someone is an AGI...and you DON'T publish it, you end the world's suffering. One idiot out of a crowd and it's trying to rid us all. So, no leaking it!
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Re: noob question about danger of AI future
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2019, 10:32:12 pm »
Your wishes are my command, this topic seems suitable for sticky status, so now it sits at the top of this board  O0

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AndyGoode

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Re: noob question about danger of AI future
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2019, 10:45:35 pm »
"I've been in a lot of AI forums before"

Can you list them all? I have only known of like, 2 others, and they each have like, 7 members, from 2003...

Do you mean will I supply information that will help to identify me? I'm still a member in most of those forums, so no, not yet, not unless I post a thread on this forum someday about my own architecture when it's sufficiently developed to promote, whereupon I'll be forced to post articles with my real name on them anyway. "Andy Goode" is just my user name. By the way, if you're curious about the origin of that pseudonym, you could try an online search on that name with maybe the keyword "chronicles" in it, just for amusement's sake.  ;)

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: noob question about danger of AI future
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2019, 11:42:05 pm »
Soooo....your username on those sites is the same one here I take it? COOL!
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Art

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Re: noob question about danger of AI future
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2019, 04:35:09 am »
Andy,

I thought Lock was merely curious since you had mentioned that you have been on a LOT of AI Forums in the past!

A LOT and AI Forums are not exactly synonymous with each other in the context of plenty or abundance. I didn't see where he was trying to spy to determine your identity.

I kind of agree, there aren't very many left at all. AI this and that, each one falling by the wayside. I just mentioned that the VR Consulting site is going down in September so there goes another one. Whether you have ever been there or not...doesn't matter although I don't remember the screen name. It was quite a really nice and diverse place for inspiring discussions of all kinds, robotics, AI, memory transfer, humanoid ethics, etc.
Lots of really cool people there as well. Oh well...nothing lasts forever except space and time.

It's all good so have fun while you're here. O0
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

 


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