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General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?

« Last post by MagnusWootton on December 18, 2023, 07:18:23 am »

Maybe its actually not wrong to commit suicide,  cause just look how shit life is.   But people are going to want to put it away as much as possible as a bad thing.
What if the best thing for the planet is it to just self destruct,  what if its logically deducable...  im sure the next deer on its way into a lions stomach couldnt give a shit as its body is getting ripped apart.

But...  do you have to think more to it than that?  Like what if its ok for the deer to get its body ripped apart for some reason you havent thought of yet?

The problem isnt solvable,  no compute,  dont bother even thinking about it,  itll just fuck you up for life in your own apartment, just thinking about  "possibilities".

And if you get an a.i. to go about automating parts of society,  I cant think of a logical way to do it,   there must be more thought involved.

So making the a.i. super intelligent is one thing,   but getting it to behave in a rational way, takes something I dont have.

42

General Chat / Science Fiction - Gravity Wave

« Last post by DaltonG on December 17, 2023, 09:02:31 pm »

Gravity Wave by Jay J. Falconer

Available on Youtube as an audiobook, narrated by Gary Tiedemann (excellent reader!!!). HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!

A roller coaster ride in a temporal mechanics with a background based on alien aggression. Nonstop action for 32 hours of listening. Long, but worth it. This is hard science fiction blended and mixed with a healthy dose of fantasy and a ton of imagination. For a book of this length, the author has done an in creditable job with the storyline structure and consistency. The science is an intellectual challenge but the science and storyline are presented smoothly with some explanation where needed - enough to maintain believability.

Falconer is an independent author/publisher who produces his works as serialized episodes and appears to rely on the audible word rather than the written word, though hard copies are available.

43

General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?

« Last post by DaltonG on December 17, 2023, 09:00:18 pm »

"Let's assume there is a group of living beings grown up isolated from any influences from outside cultures. Will the ethics notion in this group of beings be relative to each being, or will it be something absolute which applies to all of them equally?"

As much as we may wish to have guidelines that control human/AI behavior, the reality is that there can be no hard and fast - etched in stone - guidelines for the establishment of Ethics. There's always that Exception to the Rule based on variations in context. The fact that Ethical Guidelines exist in various disciplines is nothing more than a delusional attempt by elitists to impose their preferences on the rest of the population. People conform to ethics when it is convenient and devoid of competing desires.

If you are looking for some way to offset bad behaviors in an AI, then look to altruism and empathy. Both are said to have a genetic foundation. Implement them along with the ability to internalize behavioral responses with juxtaposed on oneself and prediction of the future from similar experiences in the past.

Trying to implement morality and ethics is an exercise in futility (in my opinion). Just take an example like the movement to ban smoking and force the population to quit smoking. Next, what do we have, the legalization of marijuana to increase tax revenues. Ditto for gambling which was illegal every where in the USA, except Nevada, until the government implemented state lotteries to increase revenue.

Ethics is Absolute - until it gets in the way of Reality.

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General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?

« Last post by MikeB on December 17, 2023, 06:31:00 am »

Is "absolute" another way of saying "long term relative"?

Who determines what is long term relative? Can a person involved in AI ever be non-political? Does the person who programs bias, explain away irresponsibility (poor long-term planning) as a "whoops lol" repetitively?

45

General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?

« Last post by MagnusWootton on December 15, 2023, 07:58:07 pm »

In the case of ethics, implanting them robocop directive style looks like the way to do it.  (so you literally tell it what evil things it does hehe - like saving butterflies and then keeping pests out of the garden.)
And when the inevitable contradiction happens in its model, itll resolve it the best it can.   and a quantum computer would be the best at it, given its huge super permutation power.

46

General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?

« Last post by MagnusWootton on December 15, 2023, 07:30:34 pm »

Contradictive evidence.   No solution.    If its impossible a quantum computer cant even solve it.

47

General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?

« Last post by HS on December 14, 2023, 06:48:56 am »

I always thought simple morals were absolute,  because u can tell when its bullcrap.

But technically, now I'm thinking maybe there is no correct decision when the problem is actually insurmountably impossible to solve, which is what life is.

So thinking that, you cannot actually trust even a 100% correct artificial intelligence, because life contradicts itself like frekin mad.

for example the situation of two men having a fight, which man do you agree with out of the two, I'm either pleasing him or hurting the other, either way its bad,
and some simple solution isn't possible without further analysis, which tends to not even happen in alot of peoples decisions when this comes up.

Huh, now I'm thinking I might actually prefer for an AI to work from a basis of uncertainty rather than a "complete" table of rules. Because that should get it to look at things in terms of interference reduction, which should solve problems instead of masking them. E.g. get those two men to stop interfering with each other in the least obtrusive way possible. I dunno, I could be wrong but it's an idea.

48

General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?

« Last post by MagnusWootton on December 13, 2023, 12:08:00 pm »

I always thought simple morals were absolute,  because u can tell when its bullcrap.

But technically, now I'm thinking maybe there is no correct decision when the problem is actually insurmountably impossible to solve, which is what life is.

So thinking that, you cannot actually trust even a 100% correct artificial intelligence, because life contradicts itself like frekin mad.

for example the situation of two men having a fight, which man do you agree with out of the two, I'm either pleasing him or hurting the other, either way its bad,
and some simple solution isn't possible without further analysis, which tends to not even happen in alot of peoples decisions when this comes up.

49

General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?

« Last post by MikeB on December 11, 2023, 06:28:54 am »

"AI ethics" means political bias

50

AI News / Elon Musk's xAI Grok Chatbot

« Last post by MikeB on December 11, 2023, 06:26:33 am »

xAI is Elon Musk's new AI start up.

Grok is an AI modeled after the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, so intended to answer almost anything and, far harder, even suggest what questions to ask!

Particularly noteworthy is its exceptional performance in standard machine learning benchmarks, where it surpassed contemporaries like ChatGPT-3.5 and Inflection-1, only falling short to models with significantly larger training datasets like GPT-4.

A custom training and inference stack built on Kubernetes, Rust, and JAX forms the backbone of Grok's infrastructure. The emphasis on Rust for its high performance, reliability, and bug prevention is a testament to xAI’s dedication to quality and innovation.

I don't know what to expect from these bots, except that since the creators think knowledge is the answer to everything, the bots end up having political/oracle personalities. What's wrong with a street-smart bot? Knows very little but experienced in surviving in the world.

https://www.unite.ai/grok-ai-chatbot-from-elon-musks-xai/

https://grok.x.ai/