51

General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?

« Last post by frankinstien on December 07, 2023, 02:59:22 am »

The democratic system we have in the United States is specifically designed to counter this known problem. This is why we have the Bill of Rights to take certain choices which would be harmful to individuals or small groups entirely off the table. It's also why we have an election system and a legislature that are designed to promote compromise (and yield deadlock if the major factions are unwilling to compromise, which is kind of where we are right now).

Ideally you're correct, while rights are supposed to provide protections, however, if they do get violated it doesn't mean they will be automatically enforced. This has happened through out the history of the US. It get's even worse when our notion of jurisdiction, local, state and federal can provide vacuums where laws can be put on ballots that aren't based on facts but paranoia or discrimination. To get rights enforced isn't necessarily guaranteed. The process could easy fail within the courts themselves and the costs to reach the supreme court isn't cheap! While the civil rights movement persuaded congress to pass laws there wasn't a means to defend the rights of colored people in the courts before that. Another example was the women's right to vote was won when the Suffrage movement aligned its self with the southern states where those women of the south mandated that the Suffrage movement disassociate themselves with black woman, and so they did. What most do not know is when women won the right to vote it only applied to white women.  We can today see why southern states wanted white women to earn the right to vote was to insure that blacks would always be a minority vote, given that black populations could rise but with white women having the right to vote and black women do not that would insure a 2 to 1 advantage for whites.

So, we do have rights in the US, but that is no guarantee that they will be enforced...

52

AI News / Re: Nvidia Hype

« Last post by 8pla.net on December 06, 2023, 10:04:52 pm »

That's a great idea! It would certainly be beneficial to get two RTX 3090 ti cards at the lower end of the price range. You'd get double the memory, and if you have the right setup to support two cards, this could bring a significant boost in performance. Be sure to do your research to ensure it makes sense for your particular needs.

53

AI News / Re: How will the OpenAI CEO being Fired affect ChatGPT?

« Last post by 8pla.net on December 06, 2023, 09:54:25 pm »

OpenAI, the Artificial Intelligence research lab founded by Elon Musk and Sam Altman, recently announced that four of its original founders are returning to the company. Greg Brockman, Pieter Abbeel, Jeff Dean, and Ilya Sutskever have all returned to the lab to help shepherd its ambitious future efforts in AI research.

Greg Brockman is the Chief Technology Officer at OpenAI, and was part of its founding core team in 2015. He has extensive experience with software engineering, distributed systems, data science, and machine learning, and will continue to lead OpenAI’s development work.

Pieter Abbeel is a professor at UC Berkeley, and returns to OpenAI as Chief Scientist. He is widely considered an expert in robotic learning, and is the founder of Covariant, a startup focused on robotics automation.

Jeff Dean is an AI luminary and Senior Fellow at Google, and has been part of OpenAI since 2015. He is returning to OpenAI in order to focus on developing new AI technologies and tools that could be used to benefit humanity.

Finally, Ilya Sutskever is the Chief Scientist at OpenAI. He had previously worked at Google Brain, and is considered one of the world's top experts in deep learning and machine learning. He is thrilled to be returning to OpenAI in order to help progress their research.

Although OpenAI has seen its fair share of turnover, these four prominent figures bring a wealth of experience and expertise to the team. With their return, OpenAI is well-positioned to tackle some of the most pressing issues in AI research today.

54

AI News / Nvidia Hype

« Last post by frankinstien on December 06, 2023, 09:52:57 pm »

Currently a H100 at its lowest price is about $35,000! The A100s new are about $6200, and used I've seen as low as $4500, but the A100 can't do fp8. However the RTX 4090 does support fp8, but its version is 8.9 and the H100 version is 9.0. So the cuda libraries only support fp8 for the H100, and Nvidia seems to be crawly at opening up fp8 for version 8.9. OK, but there are some other open source libs that do support fp8 for the RTX4090 and you can get by. So hears the problem the Nvidia specs for the RTX 4090 states that is supports fp8 and it can do a petaflop+ in performance. A white paper was written up using a RTX 4090 that was OCed and the best they could get with fp8 is 660 TFLOPs. This is frustrating since I almost bought a RTX 4090 because Nvidia states it can do 1 petaflop+, but apparently that is a lie...

The fp16 using the Tensor cores of the RTX 30 series, specifically for RTX 3090 ti is 320 TFLOPs. Where latest prices for RTX 3090 ti used is $720 to $1200. Considering two RTX 3090 ti at the low end would be $1440 where you get at least 48GB of memory between the two, as an enthusiast, it might be a better route.

The RTX 4090s go as low as $1699 to $2800, if you go the the Nvidia shop links.

55

General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?

« Last post by HS on December 06, 2023, 02:27:44 am »

I think it's relative to context, and for specific contexts it's absolute.

56

General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?

« Last post by ivan.moony on December 03, 2023, 04:08:12 pm »

A compromise is a kind of getting all to agree to a compromised solution (100% voted up goal).

57

General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?

« Last post by WriterOfMinds on December 03, 2023, 03:54:27 pm »

A completely relative ethics wouldn't be ethics at all; it would just be personal preference. The very idea of ethics is that there are some behavioral rules which people can violate, and that it is possible for different people to find enough common ground in their notion of those rules to discuss them. Of course not everyone agrees perfectly on how the rules should be applied in every situation. The fact remains that complete ethical relativism would be self-defeating.

Like ten kids can take all the candies from eleventh kid, leaving it with nothing, and all ten could agree with that, which is obviously not just.

The democratic system we have in the United States is specifically designed to counter this known problem. This is why we have the Bill of Rights to take certain choices which would be harmful to individuals or small groups entirely off the table. It's also why we have an election system and a legislature that are designed to promote compromise (and yield deadlock if the major factions are unwilling to compromise, which is kind of where we are right now).

58

General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?

« Last post by ivan.moony on December 03, 2023, 12:35:06 pm »

Well, that was a quick answer full of info...

By my opinion, like in many situations, there is no a black or white answer. Probably there are different personal preferences of each individual, but at the same time, there exists a global intersect of their preferences.

When the contradiction arises regarding their personal preferences, the conflict happens, which rises a new question: which side would be right and which would be wrong? Is there a way to know this answer?

There is an idea of majority opinion by which democratic societies are ruled, but somehow I don't like this kind of organization. It is error prone. Like ten kids can take all the candies from eleventh kid, leaving it with nothing, and all ten could agree with that, which is obviously not just.

On the other side, there is an idea of a single downvote rendering the plan unacceptable. I like this organization better, but the downside is that it leaves little or no room for anything to really happen.

Are there other sane kinds of decisions on which side is right?

59

General Chat / Re: Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?

« Last post by infurl on December 03, 2023, 12:20:34 pm »

ChatGPT says:

The question you're asking touches on a philosophical debate about the nature of ethics and morality, specifically the contrast between moral relativism and moral absolutism.

Moral relativism suggests that moral principles are subjective and can vary between different individuals, cultures, or societies. In the context of your scenario, if the group of beings grows up in isolation without external influences, their ethical notions might be shaped solely by their shared experiences and internal dynamics. In this case, one could argue that their ethics would be relative to their specific circumstances and not necessarily applicable universally.

On the other hand, moral absolutism posits that there are objective and universal moral principles that apply to all individuals, regardless of their cultural or personal context. If there are certain fundamental ethical principles that are inherent to the nature of conscious beings, then these beings, even in isolation, might develop a set of ethical guidelines that align with these universal principles.

It's important to note that in reality, ethical systems often incorporate elements of both relativism and absolutism. Cultural and societal norms can shape ethical perspectives, but there may also be underlying ethical principles that transcend cultural boundaries. Additionally, individuals within a society may have varying ethical beliefs, leading to a degree of relativism.

Ultimately, the outcome would depend on various factors, including the nature of the beings, the context of their isolation, and the fundamental principles that might shape their ethical framework. The question of whether ethics is relative or absolute is a complex and ongoing philosophical discussion with no universally agreed-upon answer.

60

General Chat / Is the "ethics" thing absolute or relative term?

« Last post by ivan.moony on December 03, 2023, 12:15:47 pm »

Let's assume there is a group of living beings grown up isolated from any influences from outside cultures. Will the ethics notion in this group of beings be relative to each being, or will it be something absolute which applies to all of them equally?