Broadband Tax

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Freddy

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Broadband Tax
« on: September 23, 2009, 02:45:23 pm »
Yes it's an attention grabbing headline from the BBC - but never-the-less straight to the point.

I only posted this because I was interested in other people reactions, especially from the UK.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8270772.stm

Personally I wouldn't mind paying 50p a month to get faster broadband - I think the Tories are wrong on this.  If we want to have fast broadband then the money has to come from somewhere.  I can't even reject this on principle because it is such a small amount of money.  Maybe though, they should consider only taxing BB users, that's about my only gripe.

What do you think ?

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Maviarab

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Re: Broadband Tax
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2009, 05:51:00 pm »
Old news now my dear Freddy, but I'm right with the tories personally.

Just 'another' tax by our the disasterous and cunning and corrupt totalitarian government we have in power.

Why should we pay? Do not forget that under Labours wonderful new proposals, they want every home to have 2mb broadband by 2013.

Well now, don't get carried away will you, damn half the world already has 50mb+, and more importantly it was funded for by the government, not the people of the country.

As for paying for faster broadband, I do pay, I pay extra to get 10mb, and i have the choice to pay extra again to get 25 or 50mb broadband. Why the hell should i pay yet 'another' tax to get what I can have anyway?

As an at least, if you don't have internet access then you should not be paying for it, but then this is the UK, where people who do not watch BBC (and please no arguments from any other nationalities over how wonderful the BBC is, its not, plain and simple) still have to pay a TV tax.

Sums up this country in a nutshell, can't wait till I can afford to leave it.

Labour be taxing you for leaving your house and breathing soon....

EDIT:

These are my opinions only and do not reflect in any way the views of AIDreams. (Thought I would add that as the current culture we unfortunatly live in requires stuff like this lol, when a parent (see latest UK news) can sue a supermarket for negligence (her son died) when she was not watching him and he was swinging from some railings and being unruly, the world has gone truly and utterly mad imo.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 05:59:53 pm by Maviarab »

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Freddy

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Re: Broadband Tax
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2009, 06:13:25 pm »
Not really old news, because many people would not have heard of it.

I don't disagree with you often, but for the sake of 50p I am not going to blow this out of all proportion.

As I said, I think only broadband users should pay for it.  I am quite happy to pay 50p a month, what is that in value these days ?  Bread costs over a £1, milk is nearly a £1 for 2 pints.  Do you really think this is an outrageous fee ?

For just £6 a year we could improve the broadband service - yes six pounds for goodness sake, is that going to break the bank ?  I don't favour either party, but I think the Tories are trying to make a big deal out of nothing, and they will do that of course because they are the opposition, not because they really thought about it.

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Freddy

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Re: Broadband Tax
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2009, 06:31:03 pm »
Sorry to go on, but the other thing that comes to mind, is that if a private company came to your door and said they could provide you with broadband of a speed that would match any of the fastest services in Europe... and then said they could do it for an extra £6 a year... then most people would probably take their hand off.

The fact this is being proposed by the government clouds the issue, because it is provocative - nobody likes taxes, they have a bad reputation.  But considering my point above, I think it is wise to dispense with any party line and deal with the facts.  Is this the cheapest option with all considered ?  Probably yes.

Maybe I am mad, but it sounds like a good deal to me !  ???
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 06:38:47 pm by Freddy »

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Maviarab

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Re: Broadband Tax
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2009, 06:38:50 pm »
basically dude...

BT own the network, own the lines and own the infastructure.

BT have openly stated they will not pay for any upgrades and why should they (hmmm now why should they? They own the damn equipment).

So because BT are refusing to update and pay for their own equipment which they own and rent out to all the other providers...we have a stalemate.

And to be perfectly honest, I dont care if its £1 a year. Its a tax, and its as plain and simple as that imo and its a tax that isnt needed.

Why should we be paying for something extra, that we pay for already anyway?

That is the main issue here I'm afraid.

Let me ask you a question, if you ran a business, and things needed upgrading to get in line with the rest of the world, yet you refused to pay for it...do you think the government would sort it out for you? We both already know the answer don't we?

So what makes BT any different? Why can every other country implement this technology themselves or in conjunction with the suppliers, yet here in the UK, WE the taxpayer have to payfor improvemnts, which we are paying for anyway in our monthly bill...

Do you not grasp that concept? Its a tax, another tax of the many that this corrupt government have brought in and made law with no regard for the people of this country. And it is not needed regardless of how large or small the amount it.

I pay for my Broadband...I pay for the speed I have, I pay more than most people in this country for that speed, so why the hell (and really honestly please tell me) should I pay a tax to help improve it further because the main company in this country who owns the infastructure won't?

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Freddy

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Re: Broadband Tax
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2009, 06:40:33 pm »
Interesting points, but you didn't answer any of my questions....

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Maviarab

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Re: Broadband Tax
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2009, 06:46:24 pm »
heh sorry, only see one...and that is:

If a private company came to me yes I would pay them. Its a private company.

They are not coming to my door and saying pay the £6 or else...its the law matey...

Which in essence, is exactly what the government want to do...just like the TV tax with the BBC, which is why when I lived on my own, I refused to pay it for 5 years...

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Maviarab

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Re: Broadband Tax
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2009, 06:51:24 pm »
Had a thought, maybe clarify my stance.

Say BT in their wisdom increased everyones bills by say £5 a quarter (to take a figure) to help pay for all the new infrastructure...

Is that fair? Well maybe, maybe not, but then if you don't agree with it, get your phone and broadband from another company...

You have a CHOICE, under this government, you have no choices, as slowly but surely, they are systematically taking them all away from us.

So to sum up, I have no issue with any of the major phone companies charging extra for whatever they feel they weant to charge us for (they are there to make a profit at the end of a day)...but when that fee suddenly becomes forced and LAW, then that is somethig I can never, and will never agree with or too.

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Freddy

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Re: Broadband Tax
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2009, 07:20:56 pm »
Ok I wrote this before you posted that...but it should follow on okay...

Hehe...well yeah that was one point.  Fair enough if it's law it does seem harsh.  My point which was the one I was hoping you would pick up on was the question of what is the cheapest option - what's going to be the cheapest way to pay for all this improvement...

BT is a company of course and okay you would buy from a company maybe.  But what's to stop BT charging us £6 a month rather than the £6 a year the government is trying to pull off ?  If we are at the mercy of big businesses is that any worse than being at the mercy of governments ?  Just look at the banking world, they truly screwed things up didn't they ?

Private companies often have us over a barrel too just as much as governments do.

I don't disagree with your philosphy, infact I think it's pretty admirable.  Most of my thoughts on this are about the cost to the man in the street.  It's all very well for leading and loaded Tories or for that matter any politicians to wave a banner saying 'get this free - don't pay the tax!' but can they deliver a viable alternative.  Especially when, like you say, some giant like BT tells us all to sod off.

Quote
Let me ask you a question, if you ran a business, and things needed upgrading to get in line with the rest of the world, yet you refused to pay for it...do you think the government would sort it out for you? We both already know the answer don't we?

Not sure if I get this question but bare with me.  If I had a business now I guess I would probably pay to have it upgraded - but that would mean me charging my customers more to do it if needs be.  But if the government is busy working on upgrading things for everyone, then considering the minimal tax, this would seem the better option.  So yes let the government do it, because it saves a business a lot of money, especially small businesses.  Maybe not fair on everyone, but people are going to pay for it one way or another aren't they ?  And like I said before, I only think actual users could pay the tax, it is unfair that they would charge everyone.

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So what makes BT any different? Why can every other country implement this technology themselves or in conjunction with the suppliers, yet here in the UK, WE the taxpayer have to payfor improvemnts, which we are paying for anyway in our monthly bill...

I don't know how much BT budgets for upgrading infrastructure so can't answer that.  The fact they are unwilling to do it, might imply they haven't got enough money to do it.  And if the government steps in and forces them to upgrade things - who's still going to foot the bill ?

I don't like the way BT owns it all either - I don't even have anything to do with BT any more, although of course some of my monthly bill goes their way.

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Do you not grasp that concept? Its a tax, another tax of the many that this corrupt government have brought in and made law with no regard for the people of this country. And it is not needed regardless of how large or small the amount it.

Do I not grasp that concept ?  Come on man is that a serious question ?  Sadly taxes and governments are like peas in a pod.  There are always taxes we don't like whoever is in charge.  Care to pay window tax or hearth tax ?  I was against the poll tax - so do you think I grasp the concept ?

Peace.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 07:57:55 pm by Freddy »

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Art

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Re: Broadband Tax
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2009, 07:48:50 pm »
I think the bottom line is that the companies will do what they have to or need to  and leave the rest of the taxation issues to the local, city or state governments.

Here in the states we do have some choices. Dial-up, DSL, Satellite and Cable (Broadband) which comes in various flavors / speeds / capacities. There's broadband for Harry Homeowner and broadband for business (faster, more bandwidth / more Megs/month).

I'm sure that somewhere within the hidden confines of my bill are built in costs associated with taxes, fees, maintenance, etc., and what have you.

Sometimes people will react better if they're not told about the hidden things than if they were told.

I for one, do not want to pay nor be told that I am paying for such a thing as an Internet Tax. That would be absurd and likely invoke riots among the citizens.

Ever hear of the Boston tea party? I thought so.... :o
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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Freddy

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Re: Broadband Tax
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2009, 07:53:36 pm »
Hehe, yes that Tea Party was one to miss...

I know what you both are saying - who wants to pay another tax - I probably wouldn't want to pay normally, but this seemed such a small cost, given what could happen if a private company took it on.  But it's all swings and roundabouts.  Either the companies will charge us or the government will do it.  Maybe the company can hide it better, but it's all the same difference.

If we don't like hidden charges why do we hate upfront ones like this ?  I don't know why, we just hate taxes I guess...
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 08:00:26 pm by Freddy »

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Maviarab

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Re: Broadband Tax
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2009, 08:38:43 pm »
Quote
we just hate taxes I guess...

Lo, we all hear that :)

And yeah...if it has to be done (well...if it is to be done) then those who do not use any type of phone service should not be forced to pay.

Me, well, given my views and stances, could always knock 50p off all my bills, take em years to ammass enough backlog to start hassling me to pay it hehe :P

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Freddy

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Re: Broadband Tax
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2009, 09:12:44 pm »
Yeah very true.  Have you got a stamp collection ?  If so maybe you could pay in stamps...

The other thing we have not considered, which only just came back to me now is that however fast your broadband speed is it's still going to depend on how fast a site serves it's data.  Servers don't have unlimited speed of course, so we will still be tied to how fast the net can provide.

Most of the time sites seem to serve in the 200k to 400k range for me even though during speed tests my connection is 3MB or so.

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Maviarab

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Re: Broadband Tax
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2009, 09:23:09 pm »
Very good point Freddy, comes back to the argument of should gov make ISP's give away more speed and bandwidth cfor the price they charge given that the net is ttally different now to how it was say a few years ago with more streaming content.

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Maviarab

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Re: Broadband Tax
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2009, 09:31:37 pm »
Two more interesting links in relation to this..

The first one, they are now wanting to charge us for watching things like the IPlayer etc...

And to come back to original point, let this broadband tax go through, who knows where they will stop and on what...

Asked Freddy earlier, we also pay tax on our phone/internet bills anyway by way of VAT...so we will now have VAT (tax currently at 15% but normally at 17.5%) + 50p......


tax....



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8270663.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7370956.stm

 


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